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Old 11-11-2021, 09:00 AM
 
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If God foreknew all without exception, then He predestinated all without exception, if He predestinated all without exception, then He called everyone without exception.

Rom 8:29-30

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And if He called all without exception, then He Justified all without exception, and if He Justified all without exception, then He Glorified all without exception. This must be True if God Loved all without exception !
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Old 11-11-2021, 09:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
You're using the Hebrew word "שָׂנֵא" according to the flesh, rather than the spirit, and applying that fleshly understanding to God. It's very pernicious of you to limit God's love in that way.

Here is that same Hebrew verb being used with reference to Leah, Jacobs wife, as opposed to Rachel, also Jacob's wife.

Gen 29:30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.
Gen 29:31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.

Leah is being viewed by the LORD (not by Jacob, but rather by the LORD) as being hated by Jacob, and yet Jacob was enjoying sex with Leah night after night as she gave birth to Reuben, Simeon, Levi and Judah, without mentioning daughters in-between. That's a very strange kind of "hate", don't you think .

The use of the term "hate", as used and applied by the LORD, simply means "to love less". It's clear that Jacob did in-fact love Leah, at least in bed, yet Leah was viewed by the LORD as being "hated" with respect to Rachel, in the same way Esau was hated with respect to Jacob.

If we use that same Hebrew word according to the flesh, of which you're doing, the Hebrew verb carries a different meaning. When Paul quotes the Hebrew text of Mal 1:3 (in Rom 9:13) the Greek word "μισέω" is being employed. John in his first epistle tells us what the implications of that word are when used and understood in the sense you've given it:

1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Which leads me to ask you: Do you believe Jesus had eternal life in Himself? (1Jo 5:11 should help you).
You resisting the Truth.
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Old 11-11-2021, 09:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
And, He did and He does. He knows all by His very own breath:

Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man—dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

Act 17:24 'God, who did make the world, and all things in it, this One, of heaven and of earth being Lord, in temples made with hands doth not dwell,
Act 17:25 neither by the hands of men is He served—needing anything, He giving to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 He made also of one blood every nation of men, to dwell upon all the face of the earth—having ordained times before appointed, and the bounds of their dwellings
Act 17:27 to seek the Lord, if perhaps they did feel after Him and find, —though, indeed, He is not far from each one of us,
Act 17:28 for in Him we live, and move, and are; as also certain of your poets have said: For of Him also we are offspring.

Eze 18:4 Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son—they are Mine, The soul that is sinning—it doth die.

And, He did that also:

Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Col 1:17 and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
Col 1:18 And himself is the head of the body—the assembly—who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things —himself—first,
Col 1:19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile the all things to himself—having made peace through the blood of his cross—through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.

Objectively speaking, it's a done deal. It's just waiting to be testified subjectively in it's own times:

1Ti_2:6 who did give himself a ransom for all—the testimony in its own times

Notice the term "times", translated from the Greek "καιροις", not singular as the KJV translators made it, but rather plural in the Greek text, denoting "times", that is: the ages to come, in it's own times, corresponding to the appointed times for each one of us that live and move in Him (Act 17:26, 28). It need not be in this age or time (singular), but rather any of the appointed times and ages, even those that are yet to come, plural.

Now, notice the term "own", translated from the Greek "ιδιοις". It means "own", not "due" as stated in the KJV, but rather "own" as in privately possessing in a particular and individual manner, one's very own time. It's own times, it's own appointed times within the bounds of their dwellings. It's not speaking here only of our own physical dwelling, according to the flesh, but rather dwellings (plural), including those dwellings that are spiritual, according to the spirit.
He didn't foreknow all without exception Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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Old 11-11-2021, 09:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by highway54 View Post
What are the requirements given to us in the Bible for survival?
My interpretation is Faith, live your life like its you last day on earth because his coming back is considered imminent, worship. But still plan ahead for what is to come. I believe my lights will work tonight but just in case I keep the emergency lights filled with working batteries.
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Old 11-11-2021, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
He didn't foreknow all without exception Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus is speaking to the fleshly nature that works the iniquity. Jesus is not speaking to the spirit of man, ie: the spirit of the soul being the breath of God, called the candle of the Lord. Do you honestly believe that the very breath of God, being the spirit of the soul is that which works the iniquity Jesus is speaking of?

To illustrate this in further detail, read what Paul said here:

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

The answer is Christ my friend. Jesus delivers all, by casting out the flesh, the old man, the carnal nature of the soul, in and through sanctification of the believer in this age and by judgment in the age to come.

It is that element of the soul that Jesus "never knew" within us, both those of faith and without faith, as Paul himself clearly stated regarding his own flesh.

The word "knew" or to "know" or be "known" is being translated from the Greek term "γινώσκω" and is being used in a relational or personal sense, like here:

2Ti 2:19 sure, nevertheless, hath the foundation of God stood, having this seal, 'The Lord hath known those who are His,' and 'Let him depart from unrighteousness—every one who is naming the name of Christ.'

And, who are His? He tells us right here:

Eze 18:4 Lo,all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son—they are Mine, The soul that is sinning—it doth die.

All souls are His according to the spirit, not the flesh.

Last edited by jjGuru; 11-11-2021 at 10:39 AM..
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Old 11-11-2021, 10:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Brightfame52 View Post
You resisting the Truth.
That's it? How so?
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Old 11-11-2021, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rose2Luv View Post


You poor dear boy: do you know how many times "limited" is used in Scripture?

Exactly once!

You have limited the Holy One...
Wonderful quote, here it is in context:

Psa 78:39 For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.
Psa 78:40 How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
Psa 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

The flesh always limits God.
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Old 11-12-2021, 06:46 AM
 
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He called or named all without exception!

And if God called [named] all without exception, Them, He Justified all without exception.

Interesting also about the word called here in vs 30, its not the same word in vs 28 where the word for call is klētos which means:


called, invited (to a banquet)33

a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ

This word means more of an invite or a Divine summons

The word for called in vs 30 is the word kaleō which means:


to call

a) to call aloud, utter in a loud voice

b) to invite

2) to call i.e. to name, by name

a) to give a name to

1) to receive the name of, receive as a name

2) to give some name to one, call his name

It means to call by Name, or name someone, for instance here Matt 1:21

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

So this call refers to God naming those that are His. Remember in John 10:

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

So the called in Rom 8:30 is the naming of the Sheep, and so as we continue to look at those God Loved, if its all mankind without exception, then all mankind without exception has been named, all are His Sheep, His own Sheep. If that is True, then we have serious problems with what Jesus said to some of the unbelieving jews of His day, notice John 10:26

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Also, we have a problem with Jesus statement here in Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This would be a flat out lie and contradiction if Jesus Loved them, and they were His Sheep once, because its written here John 10:14

14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

So if Christ Loved them, He knew them as His Sheep, and that would make Christ a Liar if He states to them in Matt 7:23 He NEVER KNEW THEM !

All this is the ramifications of insisting that God,and the Lord Jesus Christ loved all mankind without exception, the scriptures lead to this conclusion !
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Old 11-12-2021, 06:47 AM
 
4,670 posts, read 1,220,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
Jesus is speaking to the fleshly nature that works the iniquity. Jesus is not speaking to the spirit of man, ie: the spirit of the soul being the breath of God, called the candle of the Lord. Do you honestly believe that the very breath of God, being the spirit of the soul is that which works the iniquity Jesus is speaking of?

To illustrate this in further detail, read what Paul said here:

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

The answer is Christ my friend. Jesus delivers all, by casting out the flesh, the old man, the carnal nature of the soul, in and through sanctification of the believer in this age and by judgment in the age to come.

It is that element of the soul that Jesus "never knew" within us, both those of faith and without faith, as Paul himself clearly stated regarding his own flesh.

The word "knew" or to "know" or be "known" is being translated from the Greek term "γινώσκω" and is being used in a relational or personal sense, like here:

2Ti 2:19 sure, nevertheless, hath the foundation of God stood, having this seal, 'The Lord hath known those who are His,' and 'Let him depart from unrighteousness—every one who is naming the name of Christ.'

And, who are His? He tells us right here:

Eze 18:4 Lo,all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son—they are Mine, The soul that is sinning—it doth die.

All souls are His according to the spirit, not the flesh.
He never knew them, the person.
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Old 11-12-2021, 06:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
That's it? How so?
What you mean how so ? Jesus tells men He never knew them, and you resist it by your response. Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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