Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I do not believe in the concept of Universalism, and don't imagine that I ever will. But let's not take the thread off-topic.
Agreed! If Meerkat's speculation about the development of Satan is accurate, the complete annihilation of such reprobate spirits would be just, but NOT eternal torment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
Universalism can be very lopsided when it doesn’t take into account layering/timing/purpose/relationships/context etc
Your speculation about an evil collective is one of the levels my personal experiences belie, but I admit to its possibility, Meerkat, as part of that layering and separation from the individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Yes, I believe that once a person is saved he cannot lose his salvation for any reason. And yes, I believe that a believer can become apostate though that does not affect his eternal relationship with God in that he is still eternally saved.
I believe this also because our salvation is all about what Jesus accomplished, NOT us.
I find Jesus taught at Matthew 24:13 in order to be saved one must endure to the end.
So, either endure faithful to death, or be found faithful at Jesus' coming Glory Time of Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Even the apostle Paul was concerned about becoming a castaway at 1st Corinthians 9:27.
Beware that the one standing does Not fall found at 1st Corinthians 10:12 .
okay i see. so what if one knew it was wrong but did it anyway. but they didn't plan it and they don't like it but gave into the flesh. but one can't class it as an accident because they knew it was wrong and wilful. perhaps if this was habitual, surely salvation is at risk. but if one wilfully and knowingly sins after salvation because of a weakness they felt in the flesh, they can surely be forgiven if they truly turn away from that sin and ask for God's forgiveness, correct?
okay i see. so what if one knew it was wrong but did it anyway. but they didn't plan it and they don't like it but gave into the flesh. but one can't class it as an accident because they knew it was wrong and wilful. perhaps if this was habitual, surely salvation is at risk. but if one wilfully and knowingly sins after salvation because of a weakness they felt in the flesh, they can surely be forgiven if they truly turn away from that sin and ask for God's forgiveness, correct?
Salvation is not at risk, but the consequences of what you sow ARE! Salvation keeps you from any separation from God but NOT the spiritual consequences of your willful and unrepentant, acts. Any spiritual consequences of what you sow will be reaped in equal measure.
Salvation is not at risk, but the consequences of what you sow ARE! Salvation keeps you from any separation from God but NOT the spiritual consequences of your willful and unrepentant, acts. Any spiritual consequences of what you sow will be reaped in equal measure.
i believe that salvation can be lost if one turns away and falls away completely but i do certainly think that there are consequences on earth too. however, if one continues to sin and say "it doesn't matter because Jesus saved me" - as in they are unrepentant - then i do believe that they are at high risk. however i believe the one who becomes an apostate has put themselves in a worse position than they were in as an unbeliever before they came to know Jesus
okay i see. so what if one knew it was wrong but did it anyway. but they didn't plan it and they don't like it but gave into the flesh. but one can't class it as an accident because they knew it was wrong and wilful. perhaps if this was habitual, surely salvation is at risk. but if one wilfully and knowingly sins after salvation because of a weakness they felt in the flesh, they can surely be forgiven if they truly turn away from that sin and ask for God's forgiveness, correct?
Yes, only if one commits the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32 for that person there is No forgiveness, No salvation.
The people who endures faithful to the end is: saved ( delivered / rescued ) - Matthew 24:13
i believe that salvation can be lost if one turns away and falls away completely but i do certainly think that there are consequences on earth too. however, if one continues to sin and say "it doesn't matter because Jesus saved me" - as in they are unrepentant - then i do believe that they are at high risk. however i believe the one who becomes an apostate has put themselves in a worse position than they were in as an unbeliever before they came to know Jesus
Yes, can be at High Risk according to 1st Corinthians 10:12.
And as 2nd Peter 3:9 states to ' repent ' so as Not to ' perish ' (<- be destroyed )
Yes, only if one commits the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32 for that person there is No forgiveness, No salvation.
The people who endures faithful to the end is: saved ( delivered / rescued ) - Matthew 24:13
okay thank you! could we essentially say that the one unforgivable sin is the only sin that will not be forgiven by God, however apostates (that is true apostates who have completely fallen away) are not forgiven as hebrews 6:4-6 states it is impossible to bring them unto repentance again?
and if this verse in hebrews 10:26 isn't to be literally interpreted as just one wilful sin after salvation = no forgiveness, would it rather be interpreted as one who continues wilfully sinning (that is without repentance, as true repentance always brings change as God allows for the fruit to grow!) has no more sacrifice?
thanks for giving the context i'm sure that many previous backsliders like me - thank God that He brought me back to repentance and the prodigal daughter is once home again - would be afraid after reading this verse.
okay thank you! could we essentially say that the one unforgivable sin is the only sin that will not be forgiven by God, however apostates (that is true apostates who have completely fallen away) are not forgiven as hebrews 6:4-6 states it is impossible to bring them unto repentance again?
and if this verse isn't to be literally interpreted as one wilful sin after salvation = no forgiveness, would it rather be interpreted as one who continues wilfully sinning (that is without repentance, as true repentance always brings change as God allows for the fruit to grow!) has no more sacrifice?
thanks for giving the context i'm sure that many previous backsliders like me - thank God that He brought me back to repentance and the prodigal daughter is once home again - would be afraid after reading this verse.
I realize that I'm probably wasting my time saying this, but Hebrews 6:4-6 is not talking about believers falling away from their salvation and being unable to be renewed again to salvation.
In the first century church there were what were called Judaizers. Jews or Jewish Christians who believed and taught that to be saved you must adopt the customs of Judaism. What the writer of Hebrews was referring to was the danger of Christians falling from grace teaching into legalism by listening to and believing the Judaizers. When a believer who has had some degree of grace orientation departs from that orientation and goes into legalism it is very difficult for him to return to grace thinking. This is what the writer of Hebrews was writing about in Hebrews 6:4. Look at the preceding context in Hebrews 5:11. The people he was writing to should have been teachers by that time but were again in need of relearning the basic teachings. They are being urged to press on to maturity. Not being warned about losing their salvation.
The unforgivable sin which was mentioned in an earlier post was basically not believing that Jesus who was who he claimed to be. To be eternally saved you must believe that Jesus died for your sins. The Pharisees who claimed that Jesus was performing miracles by the power of Satan instead of by the Holy Spirit were denying that Jesus was who he claimed to be. That was the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. As long as the Pharisees refused to come to Jesus for eternal life they could not be forgiven.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
but i do certainly think that there are consequences on earth too. however, if one continues to sin and say "it doesn't matter because Jesus saved me" - as in they are unrepentant - then i do believe that they are at high risk. however i believe the one who becomes an apostate has put themselves in a worse position than they were in as an unbeliever before they came to know Jesus
i'm sure that many previous backsliders like me - thank God that He brought me back to repentance and the prodigal daughter is once home again - would be afraid after reading this verse.
