Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What it is all about is our BECOMING mature Spirits while developing in the physical world. What it is NOT about is an angry God who needs to be appeased for our mistakes as we grow and develop to maturity.
Thanks for that, Michael. I just spent an hour reading the 27 pages which was too much arguing about literalism, but you have many great points in there, all backed up with scholarly literature.
I mean, is the camel going through the eye of a needle, literal? If the literalists want to go there.
So, question. The idea of polemics, is new to me. Do you regard the creation story and the flood as polemics against the ANE similar stories? And what other stories/myths in the Bible might be polemics too?
This might answer the animal sacrifice issue. My understand, from reading Bible scholars, is that God did not want or require it (he loves animals) but the ANE culture was so fixated on the idea, that God relented and accommodated the Israelites desire to emulate their neighbors, so made sure if they were going to sacrifice, it better be to him.
Thanks for that, Michael. I just spent an hour reading the 27 pages which was too much arguing about literalism, but you have many great points in there, all backed up with scholarly literature.
I mean, is the camel going through the eye of a needle, literal? If the literalists want to go there.
So, question. The idea of polemics, is new to me. Do you regard the creation story and the flood as polemics against the ANE similar stories? And what other stories/myths in the Bible might be polemics too?
This might answer the animal sacrifice issue. My understand, from reading Bible scholars, is that God did not want or require it (he loves animals) but the ANE culture was so fixated on the idea, that God relented and accommodated the Israelites desire to emulate their neighbors, so made sure if they were going to sacrifice, it better be to him.
Do I have that right?
I do regard the creation and flood stories as basically polemical as do many scholars in the light of what we now know about the Hebrew Bible in its ancient Near East context. Another example of a polemic is that the Biblical writers took a title that belonged to the god Baal and applied that title to Yahweh.
In the Canaanite story 'The Baal Cycle' Baal, who was the most important god in Ugaritic religion (Ugarit was an ancient Mediterranean port city to the North of Israel) Baal was a storm god and was known as the 'rider on the clouds.'
For instance, in Tablet 2, column 4, line 8 of the Baal Cycle, it reads
''Let me tell you, Prince Baal,
let me repeat, Rider on the clouds:. . .
So the biblical writers took that title and in places such as Isaiah 19:1; Deuteronomy 33:26; Psalm 68:33; 104:3 referred to Yahweh as the one who rode the clouds/rode the heavens. They were saying that it wasn't Baal who rode the clouds, it was Yahweh. It was a direct attack on or polemic against Baal just as when in 1 Kings 18:25-40 the prophet Elijah challenged the prophets of Baal to call on Baal to put a fire under a prepared ox. Baal couldn't, but Yahweh did.
So far as animal sacrifices go, the Genesis creation story actually has God killing the first animal in order to make garments of skin for Adam and his wife (Genesis 3:21) and in the flood story Noah took from every clean animal and offered a burnt offering to God on an altar (Genesis 8:20). These preceded the existence of the Israelites. So as far as the Bible has it, animal sacrifices preceded Israel.
It should be noted that the Levitical animal sacrifices did indeed picture the future sacrifice of Christ on the cross. For instance, the animal to be sacrificed had to be spotless just as Jesus was spotless.
It is true of course that Israel's neighbors did practice both animal sacrifice and circumcision.
It's also true that most scholars today believe that Genesis was written or at least underwent final editing during or after the Babylonian captivity which means that the Adam story could have been written at that time not as a story of man's creation but as a story of Israel's creation. Scholars have noticed certain parallels between the Adam story and Israel's story. This would mean that there may not have even been a historical Adam.
The Bible is the word of God and is divinely inspired, but it is also a very human book steeped deeply within its ancient Near East context and speaks from the perspective of an ancient Near Eastern people and culture in a way that was understandable to them.
I'm afraid though that we are going off topic of the thread.
I don't think I'd ask him anything, because I'm at peace with what is set up, and am in no position to question him. I doubt he'd look highly on people posing him questions.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 11-15-2021 at 09:49 AM..
I don't think I'd ask him anything, because I'm at peace with what is set up, and am in no position to question him. Seems like we're trying to lower God down to the level of bloke next door or something.
Seems to me like a loving father would want very much for his offspring to want to gain wisdom from him.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
