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Yes salvation by grace is available to everyone; just not accessed except through faith.
Salvation is not salvation from eternal hell, there is not a single verse of scripture that states this. It is from a life seemingly without him to a life of knowing he is ever present in all things to be all things to us. He became what we are so that we become what he is.
Salvation is not salvation from eternal hell, there is not a single verse of scripture that states this. It is from a life seemingly without him to a life of knowing he is ever present in all things to be all things to us. He became what we are so that we become what he is.
Yes, there is a singular verse of scripture that states this (Psalms 86:13).
Also, it should be clear that those who work iniquity shall be cast into the furnace of fire where there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41-42, 13:49-50). And that Jesus has the power to save us from being workers of iniquity (Matthew 1:21).
So, in saving us from being workers of iniquity, He saves us from the consequences of being workers of iniquity.
Salvation is not salvation from eternal hell, there is not a single verse of scripture that states this. It is from a life seemingly without him to a life of knowing he is ever-present in all things to be all things to us. He became what we are so that we become what he is.
I suspect that even when he reads and agrees with you, he somehow misunderstands and couches it in his wrath and vengeance context of everlasting punishment. That seems to be his biggest fear - the consequences. He seems not to recognize that you cannot be among the fearful and join God without correction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
Yes, there is a singular verse of scripture that states this (Psalms 86:13).
Also, it should be clear that those who work iniquity shall be cast into the furnace of fire where there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41-42, 13:49-50). And that Jesus has the power to save us from being workers of iniquity (Matthew 1:21).
So, in saving us from being workers of iniquity, He saves us from the consequences of being workers of iniquity.
QED!!! Jesus's achievement and example of perfect agape love and forgiveness are what saved us. But we cannot take advantage of it without changing what we are BECOMING by following His agape love of God and each other and by stopping our iniquity. What we CLAIM to believe has no magical power over what we are actually BECOMING and doing.
Yes, there is a singular verse of scripture that states this (Psalms 86:13).
Also, it should be clear that those who work iniquity shall be cast into the furnace of fire where there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41-42, 13:49-50). And that Jesus has the power to save us from being workers of iniquity (Matthew 1:21).
So, in saving us from being workers of iniquity, He saves us from the consequences of being workers of iniquity.
Neither of those verses say anything like our salvation is from that grotesque evil hell that you believe in. You would stop reading your bible and quit church tomorrow and do whatever it was you formerly did, if you saw and understood that you are not saved from eternal hell. You feared eternal hell so you thought believing in Jesus would save you from it, now you dare not consider anything to the contrary in case God sends you to eternal hell for doing so. Your faith is not in Jesus Christ, it is in beliefs about Jesus Christ, beliefs that are not even scriptural.
My beliefs are certainly scriptural; and you appear to be in denial about what the scriptures that I referenced really do teach.
Also, to address a different point, I have no fear of hell; for I know that I am not going there.
I have been redeemed through Jesus' shed blood on the Cross of Calvary.
You read into verses your beliefs that are not in the verses. You fear hell, that is the only reason you believe. No hell, you would be doing what you did before you started believing in the Bible.
You read into verses your beliefs that are not in the verses. You fear hell, that is the only reason you believe. No hell, you would be doing what you did before you started believing in the Bible.
Hell is a very real place; but I would believe whether it existed or not.
I came to Christ as the result of a prayer in which I told God that I would start reading His word and doing what it says; and if He was real He would reveal Himself to me.
He did.
Even if hell did not exist, it would not change my experience with the Lord.
However, in reading His word, I discovered that hell does exist; and this does not produce in me terror because I know that I am redeemed through Jesus' shed blood on the Cross of Calvary.
But I have terror on behalf of you; and that is why I continue to attempt to persuade you (2 Corinthians 5:11).
I suspect that even when he reads and agrees with you, he somehow misunderstands and couches it in his wrath and vengeance context of everlasting punishment. That seems to be his biggest fear - the consequences. He seems not to recognize that you cannot be among the fearful and join God without correction.
QED!!! Jesus's achievement and example of perfect agape love and forgiveness are what saved us. But we cannot take advantage of it without changing what we are BECOMING by following His agape love of God and each other and by stopping our iniquity. What we CLAIM to believe has no magical power over what we are actually BECOMING and doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
My beliefs are certainly scriptural; and you appear to be in denial about what the scriptures that I referenced really do teach.
Also, to address a different point, I have no fear of hell; for I know that I am not going there.
I have been redeemed through Jesus' shed blood on the Cross of Calvary.
You believe in God because of the LOVE you felt when you promised to come to Him. By reading the Bible, now you feel you are saved from the FEAR of Hell by the magic of believing what you believe about Jesus and the Bible. This is why you want to SCARE everyone into believing what you do to eliminate the very FEAR you are producing in them????? Where is the LOVE that brought you to God????omething does not compute in your efforts, brother.
You believe in God because of the LOVE you felt when you promised to come to Him. By reading the Bible, now you feel you are saved from the FEAR of Hell by the magic of believing what you believe about Jesus and the Bible. This is why you want to SCARE everyone into believing what you do to eliminate the very FEAR you are producing in them????? Where is the LOVE that brought you to God????omething does not compute in your efforts, brother.
The fear of the Lord is wisdom (Job 28:28); and therefore even after a person is delivered from the fear of hell for the fact that he is redeemed from that fate through faith in the blood of the Cross, the fear of the Lord will remain in him and it will be his wisdom.
The fear of the Lord is not contrary to the love of the Lord; otherwise wisdom is contrary to the love of the Lord (Job 28:28).
Perfect love casts out fear; but the fear of the Lord is excluded from that: otherwise perfect love casts out wisdom (Job 28:28).
Therefore, while perfect love casts out fear, it does not cast out the fear of the Lord (see Luke 12:4-5).
The fear of the Lord is wisdom (Job 28:28); and therefore even after a person is delivered from the fear of hell for the fact that he is redeemed from that fate through faith in the blood of the Cross, the fear of the Lord will remain in him and it will be his wisdom.
The fear of the Lord is not contrary to the love of the Lord; otherwise wisdom is contrary to the love of the Lord (Job 28:28).
Perfect love casts out fear; but the fear of the Lord is excluded from that: otherwise perfect love casts out wisdom (Job 28:28).
Therefore, while perfect love casts out fear, it does not cast out the fear of the Lord (see Luke 12:4-5).
Fear has multiple meanings and usages, and you are conflating them.
Fear = terror, dread
Fear also = reverential awe, respect
So what the verse is actually saying is that respect for god is the beginning of wisdom.
The problem is that, while respect might be afforded by default, it ultimately must be earned.
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Jesus's achievement and example of perfect agape love and forgiveness are what saved us. But we cannot take advantage of it without changing what we are BECOMING by following His agape love of God and each other and by stopping our iniquity. What we CLAIM to believe has no magical power over what we are actually BECOMING and doing.
