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I am no catholic, and don't have much time for all the high church stuff, but I have said it on here before. Here in my own town in RI we have a large Portuguese community and the Catholic Church is a big part of the community for the good. It is very impressive how much they do for the community.
Rhode Island (and southern Mass.) is full of great folks! I've had the privilege of attending mass at St. Mary's on Broadway in Providence.
It so happens that the first Catholic liturgy I ever attended, long before I converted, was in Fall River.
You probably didn't recognize it because your faith is also seriously misguided, but I WAS talking about what the Catholic (universal) faith is supposed to be.
I'm continued to be amazed at the hubris that comes from you. No atheist is as hostile or rude to Christians as you are.
Even NOW after me asking a simple question...what do you respond with? "your faith is also seriously misguided".
Wowzers. You're a piece of work. I cannot imagine saying that about anyone here. For all the criticism people give of me, I've never stated their "faith is seriously misguided".
Way to show that agape love you always talk about.
I'm continued to be amazed at the hubris that comes from you. No atheist is as hostile or rude to Christians as you are.
Even NOW after me asking a simple question...what do you respond with? "your faith is also seriously misguided".
Wowzers. You're a piece of work. I cannot imagine saying that about anyone here. For all the criticism people give of me, I've never stated their "faith is seriously misguided".
Way to show that agape love you always talk about.
Sorry if I offended you, BF. I seem prone to do that whether or not I intend to. In my mind. it is a seriously misguided belief in God to think that anything as barbaric and bloodthirsty as a scourging and crucifixion was needed to assuage God or have ANY impact on His love for or acceptance of us, period! That would just about cover most of the dominant Christian religious denominations. I have enormous difficulty imagining what kind of God most people are claiming to love and worship. It is a true enigma to me, although it does explain why I could not accept any of it, hence my previous atheism.
That is what even the RCC adheres to during every Sunday liturgy. In the 1960s a ton of garbage was cleared out. Or as Pope Saint John XXIII put it more discretely, "it was time to open the windows and let in the fresh air." What then was stinking? Amazingly, one rarely hears hell mentioned -- and yet -- how could it possibly be that one rarely sees orgies in the pews.
Read it carefully. It is not.
I find Trad Catholics to be interesting people as in many cases they come into conflict with their own pope:
"ROME -- Pope Francis doubled down Saturday on his efforts to quash the old Latin Mass, forbidding the celebration of some sacraments according to the ancient rite in his latest salvo against conservatives and traditionalists. The Vatican’s liturgy office issued a document that clarified some questions that arose after Francis in July reimposed restrictions on celebrating the old Latin Mass that Pope Benedict XVI had relaxed in 2007. "
They correctly identify that something went seriously wrong during and after Vatican II but stop tracing the error there instead of following it back through Vatican I, Trent, and the Lateran councils. They try repair it by rolling things back to a Latin mass that itself was centuries removed from the original Christian liturgy of John Chrysostom.
Last edited by Movingrightalong...; 05-28-2022 at 05:24 AM..
They correctly identify that something went seriously wrong during and after Vatican II but stop tracing the error there instead of following it back through Vatican I, Trent, and the Lateran councils. They try repair it by rolling things back to a Latin mass that itself was centuries removed from the original Christian liturgy of John Chrysostom.
There is nothing wrong with Vatican I, Trent, or the Lateran councils. Having a good liturgy is essential because the liturgy, more so than any other aspect of the Faith, forms us.
The liturgy of John Chrysostom is used in the Catholic Church and is wonderful.
There is nothing wrong with Vatican I, Trent, or the Lateran councils. Having a good liturgy is essential because the liturgy, more so than any other aspect of the Faith, forms us.
The liturgy of John Chrysostom is used in the Catholic Church and is wonderful.
I'd love to go to a mass that contains the liturgy of John Chrysostom - I've been to various masses of different forms but that's one I haven't been to that I recall and it sounds very intriguing. Or maybe I've been to it already - don't remember - LOL, sorry!
I'd love to go to a mass that contains the liturgy of John Chrysostom - I've been to various masses of different forms but that's one I haven't been to that I recall and it sounds very intriguing. Or maybe I've been to it already - don't remember - LOL, sorry!
Thank you for reminding me!
The divine liturgy of St John Chrysostum is celebrated almost every Sunday by the Orthodox Church. The divine liturgy of St James is celebrated on his feast day, Oct 23. It is the oldest liturgy and takes @ 4 hours to celebrate. The divine liturgy of St Basil is used on the Nativity, Theophany, St Basil's day and during lent.
You're welcome to visit any Orthodox Church and experience these ancient liturgies in the Church where they originated.
I'd love to go to a mass that contains the liturgy of John Chrysostom - I've been to various masses of different forms but that's one I haven't been to that I recall and it sounds very intriguing. Or maybe I've been to it already - don't remember - LOL, sorry!
Thank you for reminding me!
There may be a Byzantine Rite Catholic Church near you.
It's not necessary to visit an Orthodox Church as the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom can be found in the Catholic Church in Communion with the Bishop of Rome
There's one in my hometown of Ormond Beach, FL that I've been wanting to visit, but haven't had a chance. Maybe next time I'm there visiting family.
"Much is written and said today about the reconciling of faith and science, revelation and reason. At times, in consequence, men lose sight of the essentially supernatural character of Christianity. To be sure, there is a correspondence between the truths of religion and our natural aspirations. Faith solves problems and allays cravings that would otherwise torment the soul; science, philosophy, logic give support to various articles of the Christian creed. Yet we must always remember that authority, not argument, provides the real basis of faith. The rights of reason remain inviolate, our Lord taught nothing self-contradictory. But He did teach truths that unaided reason could never attain, and also truths that reason, at its best, can never comprehend.
Our religion, then, is a religion of authority. In the last analysis we believe truths because God has conveyed them to us through the Church which He established for this precise purpose. We hold to the articles of the Creed, not because we can prove them to ourselves or to others, but because they have come from a divine Teacher. With her finger on the pulse of humanity, the Church accompanies us in our progress, ministering to our needs, helping us in our struggles, whispering to us of God. She is thus preparing every sinful man for the moment when, tired of puzzles and deceits, he will turn to Christ."
The following excerpt comes from Chapter 8 ("On the Refutation of the Gentiles - continued") in St. Athanasius' work On the Incarnation, which is in the public domain:
"When did people begin to abandon the worship of idols, unless it were since the very Word of God came among men? When have oracles ceased and become void of meaning, among the Greeks and everywhere, except since the Savior has revealed Himself on earth? When did those whom the poets call gods and heroes begin to be adjudged as mere mortals, except when the Lord took the spoils of death and preserved incorruptible the body He had taken, raising it from among the dead? Or when did the deceitfulness and madness of demons fall under contempt, save when the Word, the Power of God, the Master of all these as well, condescended on account of the weakness of mankind and appeared on earth? When did the practice and theory of magic begin to be spurned under foot, if not at the manifestation of the Divine Word to men? In a word, when did the wisdom of the Greeks become foolish, save when the true Wisdom of God revealed Himself on earth? In old times the whole world and every place in it was led astray by the worship of idols, and men thought the idols were the only gods that were. But now all over the world men are forsaking the fear of idols and taking refuge with Christ; and by worshipping Him as God they come through Him to know the Father also, Whom formerly they did not know. The amazing thing, moreover, is this. The objects of worship formerly were varied and countless; each place had its own idol and the so-called god of one place could not pass over to another in order to persuade the people there to worship him, but was barely reverenced even by his own. Indeed no! Nobody worshipped his neighbor's god, but every man had his own idol and thought that it was lord of all. But now Christ alone is worshipped, as One and the Same among all peoples everywhere; and what the feebleness of idols could not do, namely, convince even those dwelling close at hand, He has effected.He has persuaded not only those close at hand, but literally the entire world to worship one and the same Lord and through Him the Father."
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Amazingly, one rarely hears hell mentioned -- and yet -- how could it possibly be that one rarely sees orgies in the pews. 
