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I believe it is more about being able to achieve some sort of personal balance within the greater society which I think we can all see is pretty unbalanced
There is nothing wrong with education and business, commerce, communication, law, order, hierarchy in political, religious, social settings but there is many abuses of those things where those in authority have misused them and caused rebellion and revolt and that has ripple effects
Eph 6:1**Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Eph 6:2**Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise)
Eph 6:3**That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Eph 6:4**And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
If one gets Jesus' teachings in the New Testament and does what he says they will be saved and have the truth, but if one goes to a denomination and does it their way they will be taught wrong and have many different false beliefs.
I know they say that, but they are, they are a sect, a denomination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
I know that’s hard for people to accept, but I’ll try to explain why the congregation I worship with is not. First, we are autonomous. We answer to no central headquarters, unlike Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalian, etc.
They do adhere to specific teachings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
We have no creed except the Bible. We answer to no other congregation. We are not affiliated with other churches of Christ except in a very loose sense, that being many of our teachings are alike. Each church of Christ I have visited is different, some more liberal, some more conservative. Most, but not all are led by a group of elders. We have four elders. Every penny from the weekly collection stays local. The monies are used to feed the poor, evangelize, etc. Not one cent goes to a central headquarters. There is no reason why a congregation anywhere in this world can’t be non denominational or better yet pre denominational (before denominations existed). Get back to the patterns we read about in the New Testament. Get back to the Bible. Speak where the Bible speaks. Be silent where the Bible is silent.
Your church has a name and there are many such that teach the same thing, so you can say it isn't a denomination, or even non denominational, but it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Second, and I speak only for the congregation I worship with and no one else’s. There is ONE church only, and it belongs to Christ.
I belong to the only Church, the body of Christ.
As for the Church of Christ, it teaches things that go against the teachings in the New Testament.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
The goal of our congregation is to follow the patterns found in the New Testament. We strive to be as close as humanly possible to first century Christianity. Every decision made by our elders is based on the Scriptures. For example, New Testament Christian’s met on the first day of the week. They prayed. They sang praises to the Lord.They read and listened to Scriptures. They gave as they prospered, and most important, they shared the Supper of the Lord. We do these things. The New Testament church evangelized. So do we. We do many good works in our community. We visit the sick, etc. These are the things first century Christians did. We do nothing that has not been authorized by Christ.
The plan of salvation is clear in Scripture. We are commanded to believe, repent, confess Jesus is Lord, be baptized and live a faithful life. Our congregation follows God’s plan.
Now I say this with all sincerity. You need to be affiliated. You need to assemble. Assembling is not an option. It’s commanded.
Jesus doesn't want me to be affiliated with those who preach any falseness.
There are no more churches as there were in the New Testament times.
No nowadays churches are like the ones in the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
I’m curious as to when you think the Holy Spirit is received. Imho, we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit at our baptism. I say that based on what Acts 2:38 says.
Jesus gives the Holy Spirit when he accepts the person, and it can be before or after a water baptism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
“Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Peter taught the true gospel and then had people to water baptize others.
We no longer have the Apostles preaching the true gospel.
Nowadays we have to search for God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Again, imho, the gift of the Holy Spirit is His indwelling us.
Tell me what you think.
Thanks for explaining your beliefs and for asking about mine.
When I realized the Catholic denomination was false, I told God that I wanted His Truth and not man's truth.
So I started searching in many different sects.
I finally just got Jesus' commands in the New Testament and started obeying and Jesus saved me in a powerful way.
I know they say that, but they are, they are a sect, a denomination.
They do adhere to specific teachings.
Your church has a name and there are many such that teach the same thing, so you can say it isn't a denomination, or even non denominational, but it is.
I belong to the only Church, the body of Christ.
As for the Church of Christ, it teaches things that go against the teachings in the New Testament.
Jesus doesn't want me to be affiliated with those who preach any falseness.
There are no more churches as there were in the New Testament times.
No nowadays churches are like the ones in the Bible.
Jesus gives the Holy Spirit when he accepts the person, and it can be before or after a water baptism.
Peter taught the true gospel and then had people to water baptize others.
We no longer have the Apostles preaching the true gospel.
Nowadays we have to search for God.
Thanks for explaining your beliefs and for asking about mine.
When I realized the Catholic denomination was false, I told God that I wanted His Truth and not man's truth.
So I started searching in many different sects.
I finally just got Jesus' commands in the New Testament and started obeying and Jesus saved me in a powerful way.
Are you saying it’s impossible to have a non denominational congregation today? Please explain why you would think that way. Imho, if there were no denominations in the New Testament, why can’t their be today? What makes a church a denomination in your opinion?
I speak for my congregation. We are not a denomination. Just because the sign out front may read Church of Christ, it doesn’t mean all churches of Christ are created equal. I know that to be fact. I have been in enough of them over the past 45 years. There are some I wouldn’t set foot in.
Yes, churches of Christ hold some things in common, but then we hold things in common with Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, etc.
I speak for my congregation alone. We are AUTONOMOUS. That means we answer to elders who have been appointed by our congregation. We have four of them who shepherd our flock. No one from any other congregation rules over our congregation. We March completely to the beat of our own drum and how we understand Scripture. Our members are encouraged to listen to every word that is preached, and to point out any error we think we may hear.
You will have to be specific in what false teachings you are referencing so I can respond properly.
You claim the church Jesus built does not exist today. Let me point out to you that the church is the called out, the body of Christ, Jesus’ sheep. So give some thought to your comment. What you’re saying amounts to is that every single person in the world is lost. None are saved. The saved are those called out of darkness into light. They are the Lord’s church, His body.
I think we should dedicate an entire thread to whether the Holy Spirit indwells us before or after baptism.
You said you read Jesus’ commands and were saved in a powerful way. Can you explain in more detail?
Are you saying it’s impossible to have a non denominational congregation today? Please explain why you would think that way. Imho, if there were no denominations in the New Testament, why can’t their be today? What makes a church a denomination in your opinion?
The churches in the New Testament times were in people's homes, and they were named after the city the home was in. They taught the one and only gospel.
Churches since the Bible times adhere to teachings from men and it is full of falseness.
Non Denominational is still a denomination for they teach things taught by men and their errors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
I speak for my congregation. We are not a denomination. Just because the sign out front may read Church of Christ, it doesn’t mean all churches of Christ are created equal. I know that to be fact. I have been in enough of them over the past 45 years. There are some I wouldn’t set foot in.
They don't all have the same doctrines? Could you give a reason why you wouldn't step foot in some?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Yes, churches of Christ hold some things in common, but then we hold things in common with Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, etc.
Oh really, you think so? I tell you, no devote Catholic would agree with you.
As for Baptists, I don't think that you would find similarity there either, for most teach faith alone, they would vehemently go against you for saying we had to confess and repent of our sins to get saved. How do you go any further with that denomination in any kind of similarity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
I speak for my congregation alone. We are AUTONOMOUS. That means we answer to elders who have been appointed by our congregation.
Just like all denominations.
Jesus is my Shepherd my Teacher. You go through a congregation and elders. That is a denomination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
We have four of them who shepherd our flock. No one from any other congregation rules over our congregation. We March completely to the beat of our own drum and how we understand Scripture.
You just said you have four who shepherd your flock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Our members are encouraged to listen to every word that is preached, and to point out any error we think we may hear.
You will have to be specific in what false teachings you are referencing so I can respond properly.
The Church of Christ says no one can receive the Holy Spirit before they are water baptized. That is a false teaching according to the scriptures, and it would nullify my powerful testimony of when I was saved, unless you count my 2 month old baptism and my adult baptism in the other false denomination of the Mormons.
The Church of Christ also teaches the trinity doctrine. There are three and Jesus is God, but not the way the trinity doctrine says.
I also do not believe in meeting and paying for large buildings and and their up keep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
You claim the church Jesus built does not exist today.
The church Jesus built, you say. Jesus didn't build a building. The church is his body and the members are true Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Let me point out to you that the church is the called out, the body of Christ, Jesus’ sheep. So give some thought to your comment. What you’re saying amounts to is that every single person in the world is lost. None are saved. The saved are those called out of darkness into light. They are the Lord’s church, His body.
Many are taught falseness and in turn also teach their falseness to others, they are ensnared to do that; however, some do keep from sinning in other ways and live good lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
I think we should dedicate an entire thread to whether the Holy Spirit indwells us before or after baptism.
That would be good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
You said you read Jesus’ commands and were saved in a powerful way. Can you explain in more detail?
It is a long testimony I do want to write it out one day for anyone to read if they wanted. To share some of it though so you have an idea of what I am talking about, I will say that in my search for the God's Truth and which denomination/congregation to join, it was over whelming, for there are so many. I do know much about many, but there was no way for me to know which one was the truth.
So I got the Bible and started with Matthew and told God that I was going to do everything Jesus said to do and that maybe I would fit in with all His children that He loved. I started with confessing and repenting of my sins, and humbling myself, and forgiving others who sinned against me, and I showed my repentance by getting married, and worked at other things. One day something happened and I called on him to help me, and he saved me, in a powerful way.
After he saved me I had understanding over things I read in the Bible and that I couldn't understand before. Then things that I would read in the Bible and wanted to understand I received understanding, some things needed more studying than other things but I was always given understanding.
If one gets Jesus' teachings in the New Testament and does what he says they will be saved and have the truth, but if one goes to a denomination and does it their way they will be taught wrong and have many different false beliefs.
I get where you are coming from as I had that same thing happen to me when in my teens, I felt I couldn’t be a Pentecostal, Assemblies of God adherent as I saw the dissonance between the ritualistic speaking in tongues they did as proof they were ‘saved’ and ‘born-again’ but that just did not gel with the core message I got about love God and neighbour as self and then heard them bad mouth the Methodist, the Catholic, the Mormon, etc and always excused any of their own bad behaviour because they claimed to be Christian and condemned others that did the same thing they were doing, there seemed like a lot of hypocrisy to me so I left any organised religion - however I always retained a belief in God (and the spiritual, I felt it)
I have always been a reader and think about what I read
For any who have come out of ‘the system’ they are originally brought up in I believe there is a greater need to not despise those still in ‘the system’ that is the message I get from the gospels, the writings of the Apostles Paul, John, Peter, and the Lords brothers Jude (Judas) and James
Rom 14:4**Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5**One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6**He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7**For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8**For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9**For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Not telling you what to do, we each have to walk our own walk, bear our own witness but what I see is you speaking against other religious people who have their own duty/responsibility to their own masters/teachers/parents
The whole point is that the system of Christianity and the Church itself has been created for a much higher purpose which was spoken of in the Hebrew Scriptures
There is the mediator between Jew and Greek, bond (Roman) and free, male and female
This is the meaning behind the trinity and how it works in one body
3 which is not individual parts as such, it is about the unity/relationship that makes up any living body - mind/heart within a physical and material seen body
It is a long testimony I do want to write it out one day for anyone to read if they wanted. To share some of it though so you have an idea of what I am talking about, I will say that in my search for the God's Truth and which denomination/congregation to join, it was over whelming, for there are so many. I do know much about many, but there was no way for me to know which one was the truth.
So I got the Bible and started with Matthew and told God that I was going to do everything Jesus said to do and that maybe I would fit in with all His children that He loved. I started with confessing and repenting of my sins, and humbling myself, and forgiving others who sinned against me, and I showed my repentance by getting married, and worked at other things. One day something happened and I called on him to help me, and he saved me, in a powerful way.
After he saved me I had understanding over things I read in the Bible and that I couldn't understand before. Then things that I would read in the Bible and wanted to understand I received understanding, some things needed more studying than other things but I was always given understanding.
The churches in the New Testament times were in people's homes, and they were named after the city the home was in. They taught the one and only gospel.
Churches since the Bible times adhere to teachings from men and it is full of falseness.
Non Denominational is still a denomination for they teach things taught by men and their errors.
They don't all have the same doctrines? Could you give a reason why you wouldn't step foot in some?
Oh really, you think so? I tell you, no devote Catholic would agree with you.
As for Baptists, I don't think that you would find similarity there either, for most teach faith alone, they would vehemently go against you for saying we had to confess and repent of our sins to get saved. How do you go any further with that denomination in any kind of similarity?
Just like all denominations.
Jesus is my Shepherd my Teacher. You go through a congregation and elders. That is a denomination.
You just said you have four who shepherd your flock.
The Church of Christ says no one can receive the Holy Spirit before they are water baptized. That is a false teaching according to the scriptures, and it would nullify my powerful testimony of when I was saved, unless you count my 2 month old baptism and my adult baptism in the other false denomination of the Mormons.
The Church of Christ also teaches the trinity doctrine. There are three and Jesus is God, but not the way the trinity doctrine says.
I also do not believe in meeting and paying for large buildings and and their up keep.
The church Jesus built, you say. Jesus didn't build a building. The church is his body and the members are true Christians.
Many are taught falseness and in turn also teach their falseness to others, they are ensnared to do that; however, some do keep from sinning in other ways and live good lives.
That would be good.
It is a long testimony I do want to write it out one day for anyone to read if they wanted. To share some of it though so you have an idea of what I am talking about, I will say that in my search for the God's Truth and which denomination/congregation to join, it was over whelming, for there are so many. I do know much about many, but there was no way for me to know which one was the truth.
So I got the Bible and started with Matthew and told God that I was going to do everything Jesus said to do and that maybe I would fit in with all His children that He loved. I started with confessing and repenting of my sins, and humbling myself, and forgiving others who sinned against me, and I showed my repentance by getting married, and worked at other things. One day something happened and I called on him to help me, and he saved me, in a powerful way.
After he saved me I had understanding over things I read in the Bible and that I couldn't understand before. Then things that I would read in the Bible and wanted to understand I received understanding, some things needed more studying than other things but I was always given understanding.
Essentially, you are saying every church (body of Christ) is lost. That amounts to every Christian. I couldn’t disagree more.
Yes, churches are named after locations in Scripture, but they are also called churc of God, churches of Christ, bride of Christ, etc.
Yes, they met in homes, but they also met in the temple courts (Acts 2:46). History shows they met in caves. Imho, Jesus doesn’t care where we meet as long as we assemble. Not assembling is a sin (Hebrews 10:25). We are commanded to assemble. There is no command that says we must meet in homes.
Just because you disagree about Father, Son and Holy Spirit being ONE GOD doesn’t make you right and everyone else wrong.
The same goes with baptism. You say Holy Spirit first, baptism later, but you give no Scripture to support your view. I question if you were even baptized, since you never mentioned it. And baptism is a command. I stand by what Peter said. “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:38).
I speak for my congregation alone. We are AUTONOMOUS. That means we answer to elders who have been appointed by our congregation. We have four of them who shepherd our flock. No one from any other congregation rules over our congregation. We March completely to the beat of our own drum and how we understand Scripture. Our members are encouraged to listen to every word that is preached, and to point out any error we think we may hear.
MissKate, I have a question for you that's in-line with your topic of being In Christ:
In a previous thread concerning communion and John 6, you stated that you/your groups beliefs that it is 'only a symbol'.
In 1 Cor 10:16 Paul explains the Eucharist as follows: "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ?
The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?"
Can you explain how your groups communion, if it is only a symbol, is a participation in the body and blood of Christ, or not?
Being in Christ (God) is knowing him, Finding Him and being Like Him.
5:4.8 (67.6) The Greek religion had a watchword “Know yourself”; the Hebrews centered their teaching on “Know your God”; the Christians preach a gospel aimed at a “knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ”; Jesus proclaimed the good news of “knowing God, and yourself as a son of God.” These differing concepts of the purpose of religion determine the individual’s attitude in various life situations and foreshadow the depth of worship and the nature of his personal habits of prayer. The spiritual status of any religion may be determined by the nature of its prayers. https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book...ion-individual
If one gets Jesus' teachings in the New Testament and does what he says they will be saved and have the truth, but if one goes to a denomination and does it their way they will be taught wrong and have many different false beliefs.
According to you, every church is a denomination. Imho, that is false. Church is people. Church is the body of Christ. Jesus said not even the gates of hell would prevail against the church He would build. The church exists today. His body is alive and well. If a follower of Jesus stays true to the patterns found in the New Testament church, that follower will be saved.
**********************************
You are incorrect when you say one receives the Holy Spirit before baptism. Here are examples that show otherwise:
The jailer asked, “ “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Paul and Silas answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
The jailer was not saved at that point, nor did he have the Holy Spirit.
What happened next?
“Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.” (the gospel)
“And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes.” (belief and fruit of repentance)
“And immediately he and all his family were baptized.” (They obeyed the gospel).
(Acts 2:30-33)
*********************************
36“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
The Jews asked what they should do
38Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
41Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
What were the results of their baptism? They received forgiveness of their sins, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. What we’re they added to?
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
[/b] The Lord added the saved to His church[/b]!
That, my friend is what the Scriptures say!!
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