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1 Cor. 13
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
What do you believe the penalty to be, Shana, and once the sin has been paid for (by the penalty), what comes next?
Hi Katzpur, I see this within the context of the age or ages that Jesus was referring to.
Mark 3
28 `Verily I say to you, that all the sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and evil speakings with which they might speak evil,29 but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;' Young's Literal
Matthew 12
32 And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming. Young's Literal
Whatever the penalty is, it is confined to the ages. Not to turn the thread to UR, but I believe that it can't be eternal hell since all are to be restored to God in the end and it can't be eternal death as death is to be abolished in the end leading to the restoration of all to God.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-05-2023 at 09:33 PM..
No, I'm not reading into the text. Again, I already showed you two verses that say that God loves sinners with reference to the unredeemed. Who did Jesus die for? That's right. He died for those who needed redemption and therefore were unredeemed. God so loved the world which includes the unredeemed, that he sent Christ to die for them.
You have told me you approach God from a man-centered view. You present him as a teenage girl sitting at a dance waiting for a guy to come to her. The invitation is out there...but he has to wait for us to make the first move. Oh, sure, you don't SAY it quite that way, but that's the implication.
I've told you. God loved his people prior to saving them. But nowhere in Scripture does it suggest that he loves all unredeemed people. You need to demonstrate that. Simply repeating that one verse that he loves all the world doesn't mean that he loves every sinner equally. You need to make that case, and you have not. Instead, you just keep telling us "hate doesn't mean hate".
Last edited by BaptistFundie; 07-06-2023 at 07:57 AM..
You people who think that God literally hates sinners and ignore the biblical verses which show that God loves sinners while posting verses which you think prove that God hates sinners don't understand that the Bible uses figures of speech. If the Bible verses which you think prove that God hates sinners were to be taken literally than you have a contradiction with the verses which show that God loves sinners. Now it is true that the Bible is not univocal and the biblical writers do not always speak with one voice, but that need not be the case concerning this particular issue. God hates sin and loves the sinner. The following article in the link below clarifies the issue. And though I'm reasonably certain that it won't change the mind of those who want to believe that God hates sinners, the article will reassure those who believe that while God hates sin, he loves the sinner.
As the Bible says, God "hates ALL who work iniquity."
Rom 3:23
ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of the glory of God;
Isa 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned EVERY ONE to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. That means you. That means me. That means "every one." That means, according to the Bible, God hates ALL, because ALL have been "workers of iniquity."
As a human, have you ever HATED anyone? I mean have you felt that hot poison in your stomach? Have you then been able to emotionally love that same person that you would kill your child for them? It's a bit hard to imagine isn't it? That's because God's ways are higher than our ways. Even his hatred is higher. He is not talking about human hatred.
God hated this world of sinners, yet he loved those same sinners. From a human emotional perspective, it is a contradiction. Ancient Semitic people understood exactly how these love/hate statements were intended according to their language traditions: "the language of absoluteness to express a preference."
Regarding God's hate to Esau, Vincent's Word Studies has this to say:
The expression (hatred) is intentionally strong as an expression of moral antipathy. Compare Mat 6:24; Luk 14:26. No idea of malice is implied of course.
The Barnes Commentary on the Bible has this to say:
"Have I hated" - This does not mean any positive hatred; but that he had preferred Jacob, and had withheld from Esau those privileges and blessings which he had conferred on the posterity of Jacob.
This is explained in Mal 1:3, "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness;” compare Jeremiah 49:17-18; Ezekiel 35:6
Compare Gen_29:30-31; Pro_13:24: “He that spareth his rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes;” Mat_6:24, “No man can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other,” etc.; Luk_14:26, “if any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, etc.”
The hatred of God is not the same as emotional human hate.
So "love" and "hate" are not only linguistic exaggerations, common for Hebrews of the time, but are an expression of preference which do not necessarily imply a visceral emotional reaction. So God chose/loved Jacob, and God hated/did-not-choose Esau. Merciful Truth
God was opposed to Esau and preferred Jacob.
The same Esau that God hated was also blessed by God. Esau received blessings from God as recorded in the OT.
Jesus died for Esau and all workers of iniquity.
Believers, the elect, were once workers of iniquity, estranged from God, dead in our sins.
Paul to believers:
Ephesians 2
2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
.
We have all been workers of iniquity but Jesus died for all of us.
He loves us enough to deliver us from iniquity.
If we continue to remain opposed to God, practicing iniquity, God is opposed to us.
He is against us but that does not mean that He does not love us.
God does not want us to remain workers of iniquity.
God bless.
Go read the whole Book of Hebrews or just do nothing.
Workers of iniquity , are folks who love SIN. I know some folks who Love SIN. Just Love it.; they pursue it with all their Heart. These are workers of Iniquity.
If you pursue willful, conscious SIN and you Love your SIN, you are a worker of iniquity. The Lord himself removes you and spits you out.
Just tell yourself anything you want though to make yourself feel better. Just enjoy your sin and it's season of pleasure.
I disagree with the false doctrine of universalism. Your mish mashing of the scriptures does not work with me. I know how to read a book. The Bible is a book.
What other books are taken and have subjects mish mashed to form an entirely different ideology?
The answer is none. Every other book is read like a book, except for the bible.
Even though it is a book, it is treated quite differently.
Folks just open the bible, take one line of text and form an entire ideology about it.
What happened to context? The bible is taken out of context.
Basic reading skills matter not to the bible. They matter to me.
When Christ returns, he returns in a vesture dripped in blood
Rev 19:13* And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.*
He is dipped in blood because he slaughters his enemies, the workers of iniquity.
Can anyone provide a Bible passage that says God is 'mad' at anyone?
Have you read Ephesians 2? Romans 3? It's clear that in our natural state, we are children of wrath, at enmity with God. I'd encourage you to just read those 2 chapters.
Can anyone provide a Bible passage that says God is 'mad' at anyone?
Ps 7:11
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
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