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I don't know why people can't just be satisfied with scripture. People are always reading / listening to sermons, teachings, ponderings, theories, options, alternate ideas, etc. as though any human (and modern human) can exceed and surpass scripture. And the junk that flies around only gets worse over time.
All I want and need is scripture, especially the Gospels. Nothing else written or spoken - wise is needed. The rest can come internally with the Holy Spirit. So, the gospels and the Holy Spirit, pure and simple.
Not so pure and not so simple. The Holy Spirit does NOT automatically or supernaturally come internally just because you claim to have faith in Jesus. You must actually be "in Christ" (in the "mind of Christ") by being in the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross. Any other states of mind block the guidance of the Comforter from your mind and you lose His guidance to the Truth God has "written in our hearts" with agape love.
Philippians 2:5-30 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
I just eliminated a bunch of time-wasting junk. Rather than argue against nonsense, I just put some nonsense-peddlars on the Ignore List. I'm so smart, I hate myself, LOL.
i just eliminated a bunch of time-wasting junk. Rather than argue against nonsense, i just put some nonsense-peddlars on the ignore list. I'm so smart, i hate myself, lol.
........Well, I guess that quote-function is pretty useless, for the moment.....
Anyhow, you're onto something. It's all interconnected.
The one single, universally accepted, official item by which we can identify a Christian is the fact that they have been baptized. ... Beyond that, you can have Christians who are sincere or cynical; misguided, closed-minded, naive, willing to learn, or not. They might be intelligent or slow, generous or miserly. Christ-worshippers or following their own ideology. All shapes and sizes. They might be diverted by junk they think is essential, when those things are not essential. And on and on.
At root bottom, what is necessary for the life of the church? The presence and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Not riches or buildings or uniformity. We need unity, but not necessarily uniformity.
Avery Dulles wrote "Models Of The Church." Brilliant, thin little volume in which he investigates Church:
-as Herald of the Gospel.
-as a Prophetic Voice, addressing her own members, and those beyond.
-as Sacrament: A visible sign and instrument of the Truth.
-as Institution.
...And some other aspects I'm not remembering at the moment. All of these aspects relate to each other. In a word, the book is one concerning ECCLESIOLOGY: the church's own self-understanding and sense of purpose.
........Well, I guess that quote-function is pretty useless, for the moment.....
Anyhow, you're onto something. It's all interconnected.
The one single, universally accepted, official item by which we can identify a Christian is the fact that they have been baptized. ... Beyond that, you can have Christians who are sincere or cynical; misguided, closed-minded, naive, willing to learn, or not. They might be intelligent or slow, generous or miserly. Christ-worshippers or following their own ideology. All shapes and sizes. They might be diverted by junk they think is essential, when those things are not essential. And on and on.
At root bottom, what is necessary for the life of the church? The presence and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Not riches or buildings or uniformity. We need unity, but not necessarily uniformity.
Avery Dulles wrote "Models Of The Church." Brilliant, thin little volume in which he investigates Church:
-as Herald of the Gospel.
-as a Prophetic Voice, addressing her own members, and those beyond.
-as Sacrament: A visible sign and instrument of the Truth.
-as Institution.
...And some other aspects I'm not remembering at the moment. All of these aspects relate to each other. In a word, the book is one concerning ECCLESIOLOGY: the church's own self-understanding and sense of purpose.
Being baptized does not necessarily mean that one is a Christian. If a person has not received Christ as Savior then getting baptized is meaningless. You might ask why would a person get baptized if he hasn't first believed in Christ, but people have their reasons for doing what they do.
Being baptized does not necessarily mean that one is a Christian. If a person has not received Christ as Savior then getting baptized is meaningless. You might ask why would a person get baptized if he hasn't first believed in Christ, but people have their reasons for doing what they do.
BAPTISM is the theological and institutional, PUBLIC sign of initiation into the church. You want to argue about internal states of mind? It does not change the fact that BAPTISM is the SACRAMENT OF INITIATION. After that, it's up to each of us to live the faith by our own lights.
BAPTISM is the theological and institutional, PUBLIC sign of initiation into the church. You want to argue about internal states of mind? It does not change the fact that BAPTISM is the SACRAMENT OF INITIATION. After that, it's up to each of us to live the faith by our own lights.
I'll say it again. Just being baptized does not mean that one is a Christian. Neither does going to or belonging to a church. Being a Christian, that is, being a believer in Christ is entirely an 'internal' state. One either believes that Jesus died for our sins which makes him a believer, or one doesn't.
I'll say it again. Just being baptized does not mean that one is a Christian. Neither does going to or belonging to a church. Being a Christian, that is, being a believer in Christ is entirely an 'internal' state. One either believes that Jesus died for our sins which makes him a believer, or one doesn't.
You're entitled to express yourself, even if it does not agree with the entire, universal, worldwide church. If being a Christian is entirely a private matter, why do we have congregations? In order to live the faith, we need each other's presence, prayers, support and instruction. You sound quite unwilling to be instructed.
One more name for the Ignore List. No sense trying to convince a closed mind. Bye, Mikey.
You're entitled to express yourself, even if it does not agree with the entire, universal, worldwide church. If being a Christian is entirely a private matter, why do we have congregations? In order to live the faith, we need each other's presence, prayers, support and instruction. You sound quite unwilling to be instructed.
One more name for the Ignore List. No sense trying to convince a closed mind. Bye, Mikey.
I didn't mean to send you into defensive mode. I'm simply stating the fact that no ritual, which is what water baptism is makes one a Christian by performing it. For water baptism to have any symbolic meaning, the one being baptized must already be a Christian, must have already placed his faith in Christ. I never said that Christianity is entirely a private matter. I said that what makes one a believer is the belief of that person that Jesus died for our sins.
But my profuse thanks for putting me on your ignore list.
You're entitled to express yourself, even if it does not agree with the entire, universal, worldwide church. If being a Christian is entirely a private matter, why do we have congregations? In order to live the faith, we need each other's presence, prayers, support and instruction. You sound quite unwilling to be instructed.
One more name for the Ignore List. No sense trying to convince a closed mind. Bye, Mikey.
I think you have a rather narrow perspective on "the entire, universal, worldwide church." The Orthodox and Catholic view of baptism, specifically infant baptism, is wildly different from that of most Protestant churches. In my humble view, infant baptism accomplishes less than changing the baby's diapers - and I was baptized into the Episcopal Church as an infant and still have my certificate. I actually became a Christian and was baoptized of my own volition some 20 years later.
Belonging to a congregation means precisely nothing in terms of whether one is actually a member of the body of Christ.
You're going to lecture others about what the entire, universal, worldwide church believes - yet you regard as "solid" two theologians, Borg and Crossan, for whom the Resurrection was not an historical event? Odd.
I thought announcing your were putting someone on Ignore was against the terms of service, but perhaps I'm confusing this forum with a different one.
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