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Christianity is above any religious church / denomination (incl. Catholicism). If you get that order reversed, you'll come to all kinds of erroneous conclusions and confusions.
I believe the same thing that has always been believed. Namely, that when a validly ordained priest says the words of consecration in the liturgy, that the bread and wine really and truly become the Body and Blood of Christ. Read the early Church Fathers for yourself and see what they had to say.
Of course without a validly ordained priest (such as during a Protestant service), nothing happens to the bread and wine. They are and remain mere symbols.
Whether rejecting the Catholic Faith makes you a "bad person" or not, I can't say. But consciously rejecting the Catholic Faith certainly puts one in a very dangerous place.
Pray that the Father will grant that you are among those called to follow Christ. As Jesus said, no one can follow Him unless the Father has granted it.
How do you define a "validly ordained priest"? A priest who is ordained in a Church that has a direct lineage to the apostles? In that case, many Protestant denominations claim and assert that they have lineage to the apostles.
I do not reject the Catholic faith. I simply choose not to identify as Catholic. Maybe my beliefs will change 5 years from now, maybe 10 years from now....who knows. My current belief is that a person who loves, believes in, accepts, and follows God does not have to identify as any denomination, whether that be Catholicism, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. I am simply a "follower in Christ" or a "Christian" which is probably the only label I would accept. Even the label of being "Christian" is man-made.
That's what either makes Christianity worth bothering about or not. If the historicity of the Gospel accounts is of no consequence, then why are we even bothering with any of this? Living a Christian life is incredibly difficult, and becoming more difficult all the time. Why suffer and sacrifice for a symbol or a metaphor?
How do you define a "validly ordained priest"? A priest who is ordained in a Church that has a direct lineage to the apostles?
More or less, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
In that case, many Protestant denominations claim and assert that they have lineage to the apostles.
That's not true. There are not "many", but only a handful of Protestant sects that claim apostolic succession -- some branches of Lutheranism being some of them.
Just because a group *claims* apostolic succession, does not necessarily mean that their claims are valid. Each claim has to be evaluated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
I do not reject the Catholic faith. I simply choose not to identify as Catholic.
The Catholic Faith is not a piecemeal thing. If you reject one part of it, you reject it all. We are not free to pick and choose which beliefs we will hold to. We are called to belief and assent to all that God has revealed, not only to the parts we prefer or find more palatable.
The death and resurrection of Jesus did not just happen in someone's mind. They are actual events that took place in human history. The Body and Blood of Jesus are not imaginary or symbolic. It is real human flesh.
They are events that our ancestors perpetrated in rejection of Jesus as the Son of God, NOT what God demanded for ANY reason! The purpose of the ritual is to REMEMBER Jesus the Son of God who accomplished our salvation by revealing God's True Nature at great personal cost and to evoke the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape, period. What we BECOME in our mind (Spirit) is what concerns God because that is who we ARE, period.
That's what either makes Christianity worth bothering about or not. If the historicity of the Gospel accounts is of no consequence, then why are we even bothering with any of this? Living a Christian life is incredibly difficult, and becoming more difficult all the time. Why suffer and sacrifice for a symbol or a metaphor?
That's not true. There are not "many", but only a handful of Protestant sects that claim apostolic succession -- some branches of Lutheranism being some of them.
Just because a group *claims* apostolic succession, does not necessarily mean that their claims are valid. Each claim has to be evaluated.
The Catholic Faith is not a piecemeal thing. If you reject one part of it, you reject it all. We are not free to pick and choose which beliefs we will hold to. We are called to belief and assent to all that God has revealed, not only to the parts we prefer or find more palatable.
So we need some definitions.
Since you are Catholic, you believe in the Roman Catholic belief that a priest is "valid" ONLY if they have been ordained and "touched" by an already ordained priest/pope/bishop.
Protestants reject this and go by scripture meaning as long as the pastor/bishop continues on with the teachings of Jesus and continues on with preaching the faith in Jesus, the Church shall continue.
I am assuming you accept definition #1 from the RCC. Going back to your statement about the search for the truth. Does the truth lie within the Roman Catholic Church? You most likely say yes. I say no. I say the truth is in the bible and is revealed when we focus our attention on God.
If your last paragraph is true, then there are many Catholics who reject their entire faiths. I know there are many Catholics who do not agree 100% with everything in the Catholic Church.
Going back to your statement about the search for the truth. Does the truth lie within the Roman Catholic Church? You most likely say yes. I say no. I say the truth is in the bible and is revealed when we focus our attention on God.
Jesus is Truth. Where can we find Jesus? He is physically present in every Catholic tabernacle in the world, so that's a good starting point.
St. Paul calls the church "the pillar and ground of the truth" in 1 Timothy 3:15. Surely St. Paul had something very specific in mind when he said "the church", since the claims of different churches and sects often contradict one another and make mutually exclusive claims. What is "the church", and how do we know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
If your last paragraph is true, then there are many Catholics who reject their entire faiths.
Jesus is Truth. Where can we find Jesus? He is physically present in every Catholic tabernacle in the world, so that's a good starting point.
St. Paul calls the church "the pillar and ground of the truth" in 1 Timothy 3:15. Surely St. Paul had something very specific in mind when he said "the church", since the claims of different churches and sects often contradict one another and make mutually exclusive claims. What is "the church", and how do we know?
How do you define "physically present"?
Regarding the church, I define church as the people of Christ aka His followers.
How do you define "the church"? And how do you know that your definition is the truth?
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