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Of course they do. There is a clear and distinct division between Truth and falsehood.
What specifically are you referring to?
Of course there ought not be division within the Faith; but that's just it. There is One Faith. You either assent to it or you don't -- a clear division. Fine; but not very useful practically speaking since people with incredibly divergent beliefs, philosophies, and lifestyles claim to believe in and follow Jesus.
A belief that we fallible humans know what is true about God or not takes vanity and hubris beyond the pale, IMO. The bold is precisely what Jesus wanted in what Christians call the Great Commission, contrary to the exclusivist nonsense of Catholicism and other institutional churches based on prescribed human beliefs about God. There is no merit in exclusionist views, Mike. God loves us all.
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. In Christ's family there can be no division into Jew and non-Jew, slave and free, male and female.
Also, Ephesians 4:31-5:2
Quote:
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
I'm no theologist but in the eyes of God, I think we should strive to put aside the denomination and branch of Christianity that we align ourselves to and strive to love and follow God as one united people. Right now, we are encouraging and enforcing division. We all openly admit to doing it and we even wish we could all be one but our pride and ego gets in the way. Really makes me shudder when someone says "It makes me sad to see division... People need to return to the Catholic church and be united with God." I'm sitting here like.....you gotta be kidding me.....
A belief that we fallible humans know what is true about God or not takes vanity and hubris beyond the pale, IMO.
Our fallible humanity has nothing to do with it. It has to do with assent to what God has revealed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The bold is precisely what Jesus wanted in what Christians call the Great Commission, contrary to the exclusivist nonsense of Catholicism and other institutional churches based on prescribed human beliefs about God. There is no merit in exclusionist views, Mike. God loves us all.
The Catholic Faith is inclusive of every tribe, tongue, people, and nation on earth. The only thing excluding you or anyone else from its communion is your own lack of desire.
One day we will all stand before God in judgment, and he will separate the sheep from the goats -- the goats to be excluded from the joys of eternal life.
I know their rules so I don't break them. And then I know many Catholics who don't know their rules and wonder why I don't join in when they do when visiting open communion churches
Really makes me shudder when someone says "It makes me sad to see division... People need to return to the Catholic church and be united with God." I'm sitting here like.....you gotta be kidding me.....
You'll just have to keep shuddering, because this is the Catholic Faith. Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.
Our fallible humanity has nothing to do with it. It has to do with assent to what God has revealed.
The Catholic Faith is inclusive of every tribe, tongue, people, and nation on earth. The only thing excluding you or anyone else from its communion is your own lack of desire.
One day we will all stand before God in judgment, and he will separate the sheep from the goats -- the goats to be excluded from the joys of eternal life.
I know your response wasn't directed to me but....
I desire to be close to God. Whenever I read your posts, you sound like someone who has read the teachings of the Catholic church but that's it. You don't have your own interpretation. You read the bible, talked to a Catholic priest, and you refuse to believe anything outside of the Catholic church.
I do not believe you have to be Catholic to be close to God. I'm sorry but as of this moment, I respectfully disagree with any idea that implies you must identify as a Catholic to be united with God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko
I know their rules so I don't break them. And then I know many Catholics who don't know their rules and wonder why I don't join in when they do when visiting open communion churches
Let me reverse the question. How do you know they don't know the rules? Interesting thing about Catholics is there are a lot of Catholics who have literally memorized both the bible and the catechism and will have different perspectives on the teachings. There are definitely divisions within the Catholic church. Difference between Catholic and Protestants is that Protestants are decentralized and make it so easy to break up and divide. Again, refer to my other post talking about the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Conscious is more superior than the teachings of the Church. Going back to the original topic, if a person agrees with Catholicism when it comes to communion and 98% of Catholic teachings but refuses to identify as a Catholic, I don't really see a problem. I think the notion of blocking someone who actually agrees with majority of your beliefs just because they do not have the identifier of "Catholic" is a political action.
It's almost like rejecting a person's job application just because they do not have the identifier of "college graduate".
You'll just have to keep shuddering, because this is the Catholic Faith. Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.
Eccelsia does NOT refer to the Catholic Church (or any institution of men). It refers to those who follow Christ and are compatible with His Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with our salvation because Jesus accomplished that. It refers to our sanctification and what effect it has on what kind of Spirit we are BECOMING.
Whenever I read your posts, you sound like someone who has read the teachings of the Catholic church but that's it. You don't have your own interpretation.
"...but that's it"? I mean this is a message board, and all we can do is type words. What else would you expect of me? No, you don't know how I live my life, nor do I know how you live yours...
Of course I have my own interpretation. My interpretation is made manifest in how I explain things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
You read the bible, talked to a Catholic priest, and you refuse to believe anything outside of the Catholic church.
I believe the Catholic Faith -- that is the Deposit of Faith once for all delivered to the saints (Jude v. 3). Of course if something contradicts the Catholic Faith, then I will and must reject it.
Eccelsia does NOT refer to the Catholic Church (or any institution of men). It refers to those who follow Christ and are compatible with His Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with our salvation because Jesus accomplished that. It refers to our sanctification and what effect it has on what kind of Spirit we are BECOMING.
I understand that you believe that; but your understanding is utterly novel and has no grounding in Scripture, Tradition, or the Church Fathers. I understand that that means nothing to you.
I understand that you believe that; but your understanding is utterly novel and has no grounding in Scripture, Tradition, or the Church Fathers. I understand that that means nothing to you.
It should mean nothing to you except for what is compatible with the Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness revealed and demonstrated by Jesus. He did not repeatedly instruct us to love one another or say that would be how one would identify His disciples for no reason. Our ancestors forsook love for one another if they thought it somehow offended God. That attitude was and is what Jesus came to correct. Scourging and crucifixion of His only begotten Son did not offend Him. What else could do so??? That our primitive ancestors did not have the sophistication or knowledge to comprehend this and misinterpreted it as the Will of God is no reason to perpetuate their ignorance.
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