Jeremiah 7:22-26 (Torah, traditions, Jehovah, abomination)

[Meerkat2]

Jer 7:21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jer 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels [and] in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
Jer 7:25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending [them]:
Jer 7:26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.

The bible that is taken as the inerrant word of God has contradictory information in it.

There are the levitical laws that the scribes (priests) say came from God and you have God saying through prophets that he did not require sacrifices and burnt offfering, how much of the Torah is the true words of God?

Jeremiah 8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.

H8267
שׁקר
sheqer
sheh'-ker
From H8266; an untruth; by implication a sham (often adverbially): - without a cause, deceit (-ful), false (-hood, -ly), feignedly, liar, + lie, lying, vain (thing), wrongfully.

There is a tendancy to think that if you admit that some of the bible is not the inerrant word of God that none of it is, but I have learnt that rightly dividing the word of God is to learn which is true and which is false - separate the wheat from the tares. Those that seek shall find, ask and it will be given.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by meerkat2

Jer 7:21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jer 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels [and] in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
Jer 7:25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending [them]:
Jer 7:26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.

The bible that is taken as the inerrant word of God has contradictory information in it.

There are the levitical laws that the scribes (priests) say came from God and you have God saying through prophets that he did not require sacrifices and burnt offfering, how much of the Torah is the true words of God?

Jeremiah 8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.

H8267
שׁקר
sheqer
sheh'-ker
From H8266; an untruth; by implication a sham (often adverbially): - without a cause, deceit (-ful), false (-hood, -ly), feignedly, liar, + lie, lying, vain (thing), wrongfully.

There is a tendancy to think that if you admit that some of the bible is not the inerrant word of God that none of it is, but I have learnt that rightly dividing the word of God is to learn which is true and which is false - separate the wheat from the tares. Those that seek shall find, ask and it will be given.

Hi meerkat2,


You cannot come up with anything better than that? They were in the wilderness for 3 months before they received the Law.

[bluepacific]

Originally Posted by meerkat2

Jer 7:21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jer 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels [and] in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
Jer 7:25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending [them]:
Jer 7:26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.

The bible that is taken as the inerrant word of God has contradictory information in it.

There are the levitical laws that the scribes (priests) say came from God and you have God saying through prophets that he did not require sacrifices and burnt offfering, how much of the Torah is the true words of God?

Jeremiah 8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.

H8267
שׁקר
sheqer
sheh'-ker
From H8266; an untruth; by implication a sham (often adverbially): - without a cause, deceit (-ful), false (-hood, -ly), feignedly, liar, + lie, lying, vain (thing), wrongfully.

There is a tendancy to think that if you admit that some of the bible is not the inerrant word of God that none of it is, but I have learnt that rightly dividing the word of God is to learn which is true and which is false - separate the wheat from the tares. Those that seek shall find, ask and it will be given.

I hope I understand what you are trying to bring out here. From the surface you are saying that here in Jeremiah, that God said he never commanded them to offer sacrifices and offerings, but in the Law of Moses given to the the Israelites, there were definite and specific instructions for the Levitical priesthood to carry out various different sacrifices and offerings. That is true.

But you have to back up further in chapter 7 here of Jeremiah and get the entire context of what is being spoken about here. In the beginning of chapter 7, these people of Israel are being exposed by Jeremiah for contaminating pure clean worship of the true God of Israel, Jehovah/Yahweh, with discusting pagan practices of Baal worship. They are also said to be tolerating stealing , murder, adultry, swearing falsely, etc. There's too much to quote , but to sum it up just take a look at
Jeremiah 7:18 - American Standard Version

"The children gather the wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the Queen of the Heavens, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they make provoke me to anger."

Their sacrificial smoke and drink offerings were no longer acceptable to Jehovah their God. Hence he is saying he never commanded their forefathers to make sacrifice and offerings in this manner that they were doing. What they are sacrificing to is the Queen of the Heavens, or rather involving themselves into pagan practice of Astrology. They are also making offerings to the false gods of the pagan nations surrounding them. He is in effect saying to them that this type of sacrifice was never a part of his instructions to their forefathers. This is why God sent Jeremiah and other Prophets to them day and night as a warning messenger of things to come. Eventually God did allow the Babylonians to come in and destroy Jerusalem and the Temple and carry away the captives back to Babylon. The land of Judah eventually became uninhabited.

Unfortunately today the same condition of spiritual uncleaness exists in churches claiming to represent the Almighty God of the Bible. The same consequences exist for those who remain in these false practices of things Jesus never commanded Christians. The Apostles themselves warned of the coming great apostasy which would creep into the Christian congregation after they all died. Sure enough in the latter half of the second century things changed and the result is what we have today with regard to the sad state of affairs in what's left of Christianity. Where I live here in Europe, the birth place of most of the modern day Christian denominations, there are hardly any religious people here. Whose fault is that ???? God's ???? Hardly!

[Meerkat2]

bluepacific,

I agree with you that christianity today is not what Jesus came to set up. He came to set people free from Judaism. In the same way that christianity has many false doctrines and ritual that are not what was intended, the Jewish religion also had many trappings that were traditions of men.

In the early passages in Jeremiah it seems to be saying that it is not only the idol worship that was wrong but the whole system of breaking Gods commandments and using temple practise to excuse them of it -


Jer 7:3 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.
Jer 7:4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, [are] these.
Jer 7:5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
Jer 7:6 [If] ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
Jer 7:7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
Jer 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
Jer 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
Jer 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
Jer 7:11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen [it], saith the LORD.
Jer 7:12 But go ye now unto my place which [was] in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel.
Jer 7:13 And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not;
Jer 7:14 Therefore will I do unto [this] house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh.
Jer 7:15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, [even] the whole seed of Ephraim.

I tend to think all/most ritual is not of God - Jesus said that God requires his worshipers to worship in Spirit and in truth - it needs to come from the heart. I believe that.

When the 10 commandments are given in Deut they are called statutes and judgements

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Jesus says that the law and the prophets are summed up in love God and love your neighbour as yourself and a lot of the levitical laws did not seem to have much to do with loving your neighbour. There seems to be a lot of focus on the minute details of priestly conduct and the share of the sacrifice for the priests (aarons sons) ritual and not much concern for the poor and needy.

When you read the levitical laws with the discrimination against woman who are menstrating being unclean people, people to be stoned does it sound barbaric to you? - it does to me. How can God command "thou shalt not kill" and then say stone someone to death?

When the 10 commandments were given it says in Deut 5:22 that God added no more - the 10 commandments were to be followed but it seems that the Jews were always trying to add more to them.

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth [is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me? and where [is] the place of my rest?

I think God is saying that he doesn't require a physical house (temple)

Isa 66:2 For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.


"What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says YAHWEH; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats. When you come to appear before me, who asked this from your hand? Trample my courts no more; bringing offerings is futile; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and calling of convocation— I cannot endure solemn assemblies with iniquity. Your new moons and your appointed festivals my soul hates; they have become a burden to me, I am weary of bearing them." (Isaiah Chapter 1 verse 11)

Everyone of the practices condemned as abominations by Isaiah in the following passage is advocated in the law books and supposedly commanded by Moses.

"But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck; He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood; He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol. These people have chosen their own ways and their souls revel in their abominations." (Isaiah Chapter 66 verse 3)