The Word Trinity is not Even in the Bible (Jehovah, doctrine, women)
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Even though the word Trinity is not in the bible. This doctrine does NOT teach that Jesus is the same Person as the Father. This is a typical misrepresentation by people who deny the Trinity's validity in the bible. I fully reconize the fact that the Son is NOT the Father. So, if God is triune as the Bible teaches, then Jesus (the Word) could be WITH the Father (a separate and distinct Person), but also share the same nature as the Father.
Look at my two sons and I. If I am both of my sons' Father, they and I are three different persons, and yet we are ALL equal in the sense that we are part of the only ONE HUMAN RACE. We are all three DISTINCT persons, and yet one family unit. My rank may be higher than theirs only because my father status places me at a higher rank, but their equality to me is in no way diminished because we are ALL-equally fragile, equally immortal, and equally human.
Another way of explaining my point is if I went to Wal-Mart WITH my two sons, it would be ridiculous to conclude that I am the same person as my two sons. But I AM the same family (One family) with distinct persons. So the same concept applies with God. The Godhead is one with 3 distinct Persons, but being only ONE God. So for anyone to assert about Jesus (the Word) being the same Person as God (the Father, in the context of John 1), is actually a failure on his or her part to grasp the true nature of the Trinity teaching.
John 1:1-3 eliminates any possibility of Jesus being created Himself. Verse 1 reads:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Okay, here we see that the Word is both WITH God, and IS God. ONLY a plurality of Persons in the Godhead can explain this. Otherwise, the verse must be twisted and re-translated as some bibles do like the New World Translation.
In verse 2, we read: "The same was in the beginning with God." (A plurality of Persons again)
And now for verse 3........."All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
This verse removes any possibility that Jesus was created, for He IS the Creator and Maker of all things. And the passage even stresses that "without Him (Jesus, the Word) was not ANY THING made that was made." No way can He Himself be something that was "made".
Here are some questions to ponder. How many Creators are there? Did God actually only create one thing, namely Jesus, and then let Jesus do everything else? Did He really have a "junior-partner" in the creation of the universe? Hardly. Read Isaiah 44:12:
" Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
According to this, the LORD (Jehovah) created ALL THINGS, and He did it ALONE, and "BY MYSELF". This would eliminate the idea of creating Jesus, and then letting Jesus create everything else. And if you look back at verse 8 in this same chapter, Jehovah says there is "NO GOD beside me". So, no way was Jesus that was created, for the purpose of creating everything else.
We only serve one God who has manifested himself through three distincT persons-NOT THROUGH THREE GODS AS SOMEONE POSTED EARLIER. So once again, the word Trinity may not be in the bible, but it can be Scripturally proven as well as the full deity of Christ. This is the ONLY viewpoint that harmonizes all the Scriptures without having to change verses to support one's opposing view of this critical doctrine.
So your saying that those who believe the trinity means that the "Godhead" is 3 personages of God all being coequal is inaccurate, and/or a misunderstanding?
Even though the word Trinity is not in the bible. This doctrine does NOT teach that Jesus is the same Person as the Father. This is a typical misrepresentation by people who deny the Trinity's validity in the bible. I fully reconize the fact that the Son is NOT the Father. So, if God is triune as the Bible teaches, then Jesus (the Word) could be WITH the Father (a separate and distinct Person), but also share the same nature as the Father.
Look at my two sons and I. If I am both of my sons' Father, they and I are three different persons, and yet we are ALL equal in the sense that we are part of the only ONE HUMAN RACE. We are all three DISTINCT persons, and yet one family unit. My rank may be higher than theirs only because my father status places me at a higher rank, but their equality to me is in no way diminished because we are ALL-equally fragile, equally immortal, and equally human.
Another way of explaining my point is if I went to Wal-Mart WITH my two sons, it would be ridiculous to conclude that I am the same person as my two sons. But I AM the same family (One family) with distinct persons. So the same concept applies with God. The Godhead is one with 3 distinct Persons, but being only ONE God. So for anyone to assert about Jesus (the Word) being the same Person as God (the Father, in the context of John 1), is actually a failure on his or her part to grasp the true nature of the Trinity teaching.
John 1:1-3 eliminates any possibility of Jesus being created Himself. Verse 1 reads:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Okay, here we see that the Word is both WITH God, and IS God. ONLY a plurality of Persons in the Godhead can explain this. Otherwise, the verse must be twisted and re-translated as some bibles do like the New World Translation.
In verse 2, we read: "The same was in the beginning with God." (A plurality of Persons again)
And now for verse 3........."All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
This verse removes any possibility that Jesus was created, for He IS the Creator and Maker of all things. And the passage even stresses that "without Him (Jesus, the Word) was not ANY THING made that was made." No way can He Himself be something that was "made".
Here are some questions to ponder. How many Creators are there? Did God actually only create one thing, namely Jesus, and then let Jesus do everything else? Did He really have a "junior-partner" in the creation of the universe? Hardly. Read Isaiah 44:12:
" Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
According to this, the LORD (Jehovah) created ALL THINGS, and He did it ALONE, and "BY MYSELF". This would eliminate the idea of creating Jesus, and then letting Jesus create everything else. And if you look back at verse 8 in this same chapter, Jehovah says there is "NO GOD beside me". So, no way was Jesus that was created, for the purpose of creating everything else.
We only serve one God who has manifested himself through three distincT persons-NOT THROUGH THREE GODS AS SOMEONE POSTED EARLIER. So once again, the word Trinity may not be in the bible, but it can be Scripturally proven as well as the full deity of Christ. This is the ONLY viewpoint that harmonizes all the Scriptures without having to change verses to support one's opposing view of this critical doctrine.
Let me say up front I believe in Christ's deity, but I have to point out a couple of things to you....
quote:So, if God is triune as the Bible teaches, then Jesus (the Word) could be WITH the Father (a separate and distinct Person), but also share the same nature as the Father.
The problem with you reasoning here is this. The word 'Word' in the Greek is 'logos' and means 'a spoken word.' So what John 1:1 is saying is this:
In the beginning was "the spoken Word" and "the spoken Word" was with God, and "the spoken Word" was God. This shows us that God's logos, His verbal word, became God in the flesh when His logos (spoken Word) became Jesus. So that makes Christ an extention of the Father i.e the Father in the flesh. If Jesus was, as you state, a seperate and distinct person, then there would be 2 Gods, not one.
So the we hierarchy them? God...then Jesus...then the Holy Spirit. So then the HS just dangles away into oblivion. What then?
I'm guessing this question is for me?
As far as the Holy Spirit I believe it is similiar to our spirit. Let me ask you...is our spirit a person? True the Holy Spirit is spoken of as doing 'human' things i.e speaking, hearing etc etc. but these are figures of speech such as...the trees shall clap their hands. Do you think the trees will actually clap there hands?
And in regards to the Holy Spirit being called "he"...ships are called 'she'...do you really think they are women?
So what am I saying in regards to God's Holy Spirit? It is God's Spirit, not a third 'person.'
I'm guessing this question is for me?
As far as the Holy Spirit I believe it is similiar to our spirit. Let me ask you...is our spirit a person? True the Holy Spirit is spoken of as doing 'human' things i.e speaking, hearing etc etc. but these are figures of speech such as...the trees shall clap their hands. So what am I saying in regards to God's Holy Spirit? It is God's Spirit, not a third 'person.'
I've never felt the need to dissect it. I am just grateful for the Three/Trinity/??
I've never felt the need to dissect it. I am just grateful for the Three/Trinity/??
I am very grateful also. If God hadn't created me, called me and saved me I'd be in a big mess of hurt. If Christ hadn't taken my place on the cross...well you know. And if I didn't have God's Spirit to teach and guide me...the same can be said. However to say there are 3 Persons as God is the same thing as saying there are 3 Gods. It's no wonder the other religions think we are nuts!!
Why is it sooooo important to make God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit co-equal? The bible states a clear and obvious hierarchy between the Father and Son. When you accept that they are different "people" with different roles, it doesn't take anything away from them. The Father is God who has given His Son authority...that's what the bible says, isn't that good enough?
So your saying that those who believe the trinity means that the "Godhead" is 3 personages of God all being coequal is inaccurate, and/or a misunderstanding?
I would call it a misunderstanding, yes.
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