Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The word 'perish' means to "fully destroy." What does that mean to you?
The strongest word for destroy in the New Testament is apollumi and it is rooted in the Koine Greek olethros, an equally powerful word. Both words encompass salvation at the consummation. As a matter of fact, Jesus Christ has come that we might not be lost or destroyed/ apollumi, and yet has guaranteed that if we save our life we will apollumi it, but if we destroy/apollumi our life for Him we shall save it.
You will find that destruction in the Old Covenant is found in over 20 distinct words with our usual idea involved in the meaning. However, and it is a large however indeed, in a number of those words there is dual meaning again. Destruction is linked with new life and transformation.
Furthermore, in the vessels fitted to destruction in Romans 9:22 "fitted" means the following....
Fitted= Katartivzw=
To render fit and sound/ complete.
To fit out, equip, put in order, to arrange.
To adjust.
To strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he aught to be.
To mend what has been broken or rent.
Quote:
Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses/ apollumi one of them. Does he not go after the lost/ apollumi sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home.Then he calls his neighbors and friends together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found by lost/ apollumi sheep.' I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
"Unto me every knee shall bow, unto me every tongue shall confess, You are Lord to the glory of God the Father."
"From him everything comes, through him everything exists, in him everything ends."
"It follows then that just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which extends to the whole race, so also the result of a single decree of righteousness is a life-giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. For as through the disobedience of the one individual the mass of mankind were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now Law was brought in later on, so that transgression might increase. But where sin increased, grace has overflowed."
Bingo, Rockhead! Do you know that "all" does not mean all in many peoples thinking?
"For seeing that death came through man, through man comes also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For just as through Adam all die, so also through Christ all will be made alive again.
23 But this will happen to each in the right order--Christ having been the first to rise, and afterwards Christ's people rising at His return.
24 ¶ Later on, comes the End, when He is to surrender the Kingship to God, the Father, when He shall have overthrown all other government and all other authority and power.
25 For He must continue King until He shall have put all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that is to be overthrown is Death;
27 for He will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that "All things are in subjection," it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him.
28 But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all."
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Yes I believe it is eternal, the word NOT implies eternity.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Yes I believe it is eternal, the word NOT implies eternity.
Hell fire=gehenna which when Jesus used that word He referred to the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem and is an anology of the lake of fire which is the second death. In this garbage dump were maggots i.e worms that didn't die. Why didn't they die? Because they had plenty to eat.The 'worm dieth not' is in reference to these maggots.
Funny that Paul - the most prolific writer of the New Testament - never mentions hell...
Evidently St. Paul, the author of at least 13 epistles, failed to grasp the eternal hell dogma. He declared the "whole" counsel of God but managed to miss the cornerstone of the fundamentalist fundagelicals.
Perhaps he was too immersed in the revelation of the whole of created life "shall be delivered." Perhaps he was unaware of what the prophets of the most high God declares. Perhaps his encounter with the risen Christ fell short....perhaps?
Quote:
The redemption is not only for mankind; it is for the universe, for the material earth, everything that sin and the devil have touched and marred has been completely redeemed by Jesus Christ. There is a day coming when the redemption will actually be manifested, when there will be a new heaven and a new earth with a new humanity upon it. -Oswald Chambers-
Evidently St. Paul, the author of at least 13 epistles, failed to grasp the eternal hell dogma. He declared the "whole" counsel of God but managed to miss the cornerstone of the fundamentalist fundagelicals.
Perhaps he was too immersed in the revelation of the whole of created life "shall be delivered." Perhaps he was unaware of what the prophets of the most high God declares. Perhaps his encounter with the risen Christ fell short....perhaps?
Paul did give us insight to the dispensation of His grace, though.
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)
What exactly was purchased - just a few?
You've already posted 1 Corinthians, but I'll point out again that "all will be made alive, but each in his own order" (1 Cor 15:22-23). (It's hard to say who is a traditionalist and who is a contemporary(ist), because the early Church believed in the restoration of all things and now we don't ) but anyway, we bristle at the notion of the fire Jesus spoke of as being a means to an end, but that's exactly what it is.
Those who believe in an eternal punishment need to figure out how God will be all in all in their doctrine; how He wants all men to be saved, gets what He wants, but loses out to man's (apparently) all powerful will.
Paul did give us insight to the dispensation of His grace, though.
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)
What exactly was purchased - just a few?
You've already posted 1 Corinthians, but I'll point out again that "all will be made alive, but each in his own order" (1 Cor 15:22-23). (It's hard to say who is a traditionalist and who is a contemporary(ist), because the early Church believed in the restoration of all things and now we don't ) but anyway, we bristle at the notion of the fire Jesus spoke of as being a means to an end, but that's exactly what it is.
Those who believe in an eternal punishment need to figure out how God will be all in all in their doctrine; how He wants all men to be saved, gets what He wants, but loses out to man's (apparently) all powerful will.
The early church indeed did believe in the restitution of all things, or leaned heavily towards it. (see Universalism: The Majority Belief of the Early Church - Schaff-Hertzog Volume 12 Page 96)
It is simply impossible for all things to end in God as the Source, Guide and Goal of all that is, and to have a dimension that exists alongside of Him as a testimony of His failure! Simply impossible.
"To believe that anyone goes into the Lake of Fire to bear that punishment again for sin is actually to diminish the work of Calvary and to detract from the perfect atonement of the cross, making it without effect and altogether unnecessary. Hence, we must view the Lake of Fire as being something other than retributive; and our only alternative is that the Lake of Fire is remedial."
-Charles P. Schmitt, The Unending Triumph of Jesus Christ-
"For seeing that death came through man, through man comes also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For just as through Adam all die, so also through Christ all will be made alive again.
23 But this will happen to each in the right order--Christ having been the first to rise, and afterwards Christ's people rising at His return.
24 ¶ Later on, comes the End, when He is to surrender the Kingship to God, the Father, when He shall have overthrown all other government and all other authority and power.
25 For He must continue King until He shall have put all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that is to be overthrown is Death;
27 for He will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that "All things are in subjection," it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him.
28 But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all."
Amen, Birdy56.
Quote:
Yes as a matter of fact I do KNOW the Word of God, and It states the wicked will perish. Do you know what the word perish means?
The earth will perish yet it will also be restored. Also Sodom and Gomorrah are to be restored to their former estate. I don't believe in eternal hell because Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the world as this was His mission. I don't believe that Jesus taught eternal hell. God is able to accomplish whatever He will have and this is the restoration of all to Himself. (Colossians 1:15-20) Jesus died for all and deserves all. He will get all. He will subject all to Himself that God so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor. 15) Eternal hell to me says that Jesus will not be able to defeat sin and its power. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-04-2009 at 04:21 AM..
Hell in religion serves as a coercive mechanism. In other words, it's purpose is to intimidate its followers.
Any organizations resorting coercions never serve the society in legitimate way.
Unlike any other coercions, the religious hell is a fake lie. It prays on the faithfuls. Think about it, does an "omnipotent" being need to wait until deaths to give the irreversible verdict? It's all lies, isn't it?
What about heaven? Heaven has no meanings in religions. It's only purpose is to entice people to join in, once people join in, they never hear that one again. So, religions are all about hell and intimidation, nothing good comes out of it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Do you know that "all" does not mean all in many peoples thinking?
He declared the "whole" counsel of God but managed to miss the cornerstone of the fundamentalist fundagelicals. 
