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There is SO much deception on this thread, those who seek to be justified by law. In Romans 7, unlike some false teaching that is common, Paul is not talking about his past nor some hypothetical case. He is clearly talking in the PRESENT TENSE about his CURRENT state. He clearly discusses how he routinely WILLFULLY sinned (doing that which he knew to be evil). He concluded with the realization "It is NO LONGER I that do it, but the SIN that DWELLS WITHIN ME". That statement makes NO sense unless he is talking about a current state of existence as opposed to a past state, since he says it was NO LONGER him (his new nature) that was doing it, as it used to be when his whole being (his old nature) was involved in the willful sinning. Christ has paid for ALL our sins, past, present and future. Once we truly accept His FREE GIFT, we are saved AND BORN AGAIN (yes they are one and the same), and we are imputed with HIS righteousness, NOT our own. You who say otherwise twist the scriptures, I guess, to appease yourselves in your supposed superior "righteous" living. You honestly believe you NEVER do ANYTHING that you KNOW is wrong? Whatever is not of faith IS SIN. If you allow your anger to be out of control. THAT is WILLFUL sin. If you choose to put something in your body you know not to be healthy, THAT is WILLFUL sin. I could go on and on. Romans 7, I believe, was put there as an assurance of those who DO battle the flesh, who DO struggle at times in their lives with doing things, IN THEIR SPIRIT, they truly do not want to do, but, in their flesh, they find hard, AT TIMES, to resist. As a child of God, in those times, we can cry out to Him for full forgiveness that was already provided for us through the cross and THE BLOOD. 1 John 1:9. Peace.
We accept Jesus within in our inner heart by following the guidance of the Holy Spirit (conscience) . . . It is how we are "born of God" (conceived, "begotten" of God) . . . but we can NOT be "born again" until this fleshly life has ended . . . and we are reborn as Spirit like Jesus ("that which is born of Flesh is Flesh, that which is born of Spirit is Spirit," period). We were ALL saved when Jesus was reborn (resurrected) as Spirit and became available to us ALL as the Comforter within.
If David had done that today he would be slaughtered for doing so.How could he ever be a christian commiting adultery, and look at all the wealth he has,he's obviously believes in the prosperity message.
David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into human hands.”2 Sam 24:14
Jesus actually exposed this doctrine of willful/ignorant sin doctrine of the Pharisee by these words....But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.Matt 5:28
Jesus never graded sin into wilful and ignorant sin, so to condemn wilful sin and excuse ignorant sin, he revealed where sin was coming from.
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heartthe mouth speaks Matt 12:34
The good news is he bore all that sin for us,the wilful and ignorant(I haven't seen it so God hasn't ) sin. He is not counting your sin against you(This is good news) 2 Cor 5:19.
The subject of David’s sin is a difficult question for many Christians.
It is only difficult for people who can't face the fact that all humans will die imperfect and will not die sin free.
Once you realize what Gods actions through his nature of Love accomplishes, then you realize that despite everyone dying in a state of imperfection it does not hinder God from accomplishing what he desires for all of us in any way.
It actually is ok that man dies in a state of imperfection because we can trust Gods love.
It is only difficult for people who can't face the fact that all humans will die imperfect and will not die sin free.
Once you realize what Gods actions through his nature of Love accomplishes, then you realize that despite everyone dying in a state of imperfection it does not hinder God from accomplishing what he desires for all of us in any way.
It actually is ok that man dies in a state of imperfection because we can trust Gods love.
Whale of a post - one that cannot be argued. Man's carnal nature hasn't ever been extinguished this side of the grave, but that's fuel for another thread. The issue in this life is learning to turn from one Tree to the Other - not leaning on our own understanding (the carnal mind), not leaning on our own strength (the arm of the flesh), and not pursuing our own will but His for our life and for the world around us.
The subject of David’s sin is a difficult question for many Christians. David was a man greatly used by God and yet he committed wicked sins by his adultery with Bathsheba and murdering Uriah – and yet David was forgiven.
Does that mean that the believer who has truly repented and become a child of God can also rebel against God, commit willful sin and be forgiven?
Yes, you can be forgiven after sinning. What is so difficult about the subject?
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 03-03-2011 at 10:59 AM..
Yes, you can be forgiven after sinning. What is so diffucult about the subject?
Some people drive others away from Christ by slamming them upside the head with stone tablets, causing swelling of the carnal brain and a feeling of heaviness in the back.
Yes, you can be forgiven after sinning. What is so diffucult about the subject?
That isn't the subject Finn.
The subject is this:
King David transgressed BEFORE he was born again of the spirit...therefore, according to Scripture, his wickedness could be forgiven..there was a sacrifice left for that. IF, however, he had comitted his transgressions AFTER he laid face down on the ground and repented...and was born again in the Spirit of Christ, and given the knowledge of the truth, he would NOT have been forgiven of his transgressions and he would not have been the apple of God's eye and he would NOT be in heaven right now with God the Father as a witness for us...there is NO sacrifice left for sins comitted with forethought to those who have tasted the goodness of God's grace...For if we willfully sin AFTER that we have received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS. Hebrews 10:26.
Some people drive others away from Christ by slamming them upside the head with stone tablets, causing swelling of the carnal brain and a feeling of heaviness in the back.
Wow little elmer was this a prophecy,if it was ,it was fulfilled in 5 minutes.
King David transgressed BEFORE he was born again of the spirit...therefore, according to Scripture, his wickedness could be forgiven..there was a sacrifice left for that. IF, however, he had comitted his transgressions AFTER he laid face down on the ground and repented...and was born again in the Spirit of Christ, and given the knowledge of the truth, he would NOT have been forgiven of his transgressions and he would not have been the apple of God's eye and he would NOT be in heaven right now with God the Father as a witness for us...there is NO sacrifice left for sins comitted with forethought to those who have tasted the goodness of God's grace...For if we willfully sin AFTER that we have received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS. Hebrews 10:26.
I don't read Hebrews 10:26 the same way as you. When you are saved, you are saved, and there is no need to be re-saved even if you slip. After all we all slip, and if that does not mean we lose salvation.
Some people drive others away from Christ by slamming them upside the head with stone tablets, causing swelling of the carnal brain and a feeling of heaviness in the back.
Believers are driven away from Christ by 'some people'? Personally I do not know any believer (David was a believer) who has been driven away from Christ because of what 'some people' say. The relationship is between you and Christ, not between you and 'some people'. If you are driven away from Christ you need to examine your faith, not the comments of 'some people'.
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) sin. He is not counting your sin against you(This is good news) 2 Cor 5:19.
