Is it a sin to accuse God of abandoning us?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Mike555

In so saying this, you demonstrate once again, that you don't understand even the very basis, the very purpose for which Christ came into the world.

And your constant references to those who wrote the Bible under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit as primitive ignorant savages, and now a new term I haven't seen you use before, now you call them 'savage morons', shows your conceited arrogance and distain for others, which puts the lie to your claims of loving God and loving others.

There was absolutely a penalty to be paid for sin. And since man can't pay it, God had to become man in order to make that payment. The penalty for sin is spiritual death - separation from God. Since man can't pay the penalty for sin, those who reject Christ as Savior, and therefore His payment for sin, must be separated from God forever. Since Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrifice for sin, His spiritual death was efficacious and satisfied the demands of God's righteousness.
Romans 6:12 'For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift from God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hebrews 10:10 'By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:12 'But He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God'

You pervert the gospel by denying that Christ died as a substitute for our sins. Jesus Christ was delivered up to the cross by the predetermined plan of God as is declared in Acts 2:23. Peter makes the following statement. 'This Man, delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death'.

The death of Christ on the cross was required by God in order to satisfy the demands of His Righteousness.


Romans 3:22 'even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25] whom God displayed publicly as a propitation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26] for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

1 John 2:2 'and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


The promise of a Savior was made in Gen 3:15 when God promised that the seed of the woman (a reference to Christ) would bruise the head of Satan, and that Satan would bruise Christ on the heel. This was a reference to the cross.

Now, the writers of the New Testament Scriptures who spoke of the love of Christ are the same writers who wrote that there was a penalty for sin.

And this New Age non-sense you keep talking about, ''It is the death and rebirth of His human consciousness as Spirit that connected our species to God's consciousness . . . and made His Holy Spirit available to every human consciousness to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts."' is not true. Jesus' human consciousness was not reborn as Spirit, and the human race as a species was not connected to God's consciousness. Nor does the Holy Spirit (who is not Jesus, but is God the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the trinity) indwell everyone. He only indwells the church-age believer. He does not indwell the unbeliever. Jesus Christ died both spiritually and physically on the cross. His body was physically resurrected three days later as a glorified body of incorruptability and immortality. The humanity of Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God the Father. As deity, Jesus is omnipresent. The indwelling of Jesus Christ in the Church-age believer is a particular way of manifesting His omnipresence for a particuliar purpose during the church-age.

You, who reject Biblical truth, and charge Bible doctrine as being the doctrines and precepts of men, which is blasphemous, are yourself only capable of spouting the doctrines and precepts of men, and you cannot even discern your own ignorance.

The savage and barbarous concept of God as a wrathful, vengeful, jealous egotistical and punishing Tyrant instead of a loving Father is the true blasphemy! It is understandable that our ignorant primitive ancestors would believe it . . . but for modern humans to do so is unforgivable.

I provide the scientifically supportable explanation for Christ's importance . . . and you rattle on about some New Age boogeyman.

I show that there is no magic or supernaturality needed to explain the singular role Christ plays in our connection to God . . . and you prattle on about the demands of holy righteousness and some perverted sense of justice that would support ET or AN.

I explain scientifically how the Holy Spirit came to be available within our human consciousness and able to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts" . . . and you spout nonsense about an omnipresent Jesus (but only selectively so for you and your church age believers or whatever!) which is absurd. Omnipresent is omnipresent.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

The savage and barbarous concept of God as a wrathful, vengeful, jealous egotistical and punishing Tyrant instead of a loving Father is the true blasphemy! It is understandable that our ignorant primitive ancestors would believe it . . . but for modern humans to do so is unforgivable.

I provide the scientifically supportable explanation for Christ's importance . . . and you rattle on about some New Age boogeyman.

I show that there is no magic or supernaturality needed to explain the singular role Christ plays in our connection to God . . . and you prattle on about the demands of holy righteousness and some perverted sense of justice that would support ET or AN.

I explain scientifically how the Holy Spirit came to be available within our human consciousness and able to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts" . . . and you spout nonsense about an omnipresent Jesus (but only selectively so for you and your church age believers or whatever!) which is absurd. Omnipresent is omnipresent.

No mysticphd. You show only your own rejection of the truth and your own ignorance. You further show yourself to not even be saved. In denying the holiness of God, you do not even understand the reason why Christ came into the world. You are still under condemnation, and your destination is the eternal lake of fire. Your only hope is to separate yourself from this new-ageism or mysticism and come to understand the gospel message. To be saved requires a certain minimal understanding of a few things. You must understand that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is the unique Son of God which speaks of His deity. When Jesus said He was the Son of God, He was saying that He was God. And so the Jews of His day understood it. But most didn't believe Him and many sought to stone Him. You must understand that man is a sinner and under the penalty of spiritual death, and that He can do nothing about his condition. You must understand that Jesus came into the human race to die as a substitude for man, and be judged for the sins of the world. You must understand that Jesus was physically resurrected. And understanding these things, to place your faith in Jesus Christ for eternal salvation.

But you don't believe these things which are spelled out in the Bible and so don't believe in the true Jesus. This further puts the lie to your claim that you don't reject the Bible.

Repent or find out the hard way just how real the lake of fire is. Your choice.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Mike555

No mysticphd. You show only your own rejection of the truth and your own ignorance. You further show yourself to not even be saved. In denying the holiness of God, you do not even understand the reason why Christ came into the world.

I deny no such thing. I know that God's holiness does not require any such abominations as the scourging, crucifixion, ET or AN, period. It is a twisted notion of holiness that would countenance such evil.

You are still under condemnation, and your destination is the eternal lake of fire. Your only hope is to separate yourself from this new-ageism or mysticism and come to understand the gospel message.

There is no Good News in what you proclaim the Gospel to be, Mike. It is Bad News. I have nothing to do with your New Age boogeyman. I am a Christian without all the magic and superstition.

To be saved requires a certain minimal understanding of a few things. You must understand that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is the unique Son of God which speaks of His deity. When Jesus said He was the Son of God, He was saying that He was God. And so the Jews of His day understood it. But most didn't believe Him and many sought to stone Him.

The silliness about personhood is the result of ignorance about what constitutes personhood. Our consciousness defines our personhood . . . so too with God. When Jesus achieved the IDENTICAL consciousness of God in His human consciousness . . . they became ONE. The Holy Spirit is the ignorant ancient's way of referring to God's consciousness . .. or His personhood . . . not a separate person. Only the carnal mind is stuck attributing personhood to physical bodies.

You must understand that man is a sinner and under the penalty of spiritual death, and that He can do nothing about his condition. You must understand that Jesus came into the human race to die as a substitude for man, and be judged for the sins of the world. You must understand that Jesus was physically resurrected. And understanding these things, to place your faith in Jesus Christ for eternal salvation.

Nonsense. Christ came to do what none of us were capable of doing . . . producing a human consciousness IDENTICAL to God's consciousness linking all human consciousness permanently with God. In THAT sense He substituted His PERFECT human consciousness for ours and now we only need to achieve some harmonic resonance with His through "love of God and each other." Jesus was reborn as Spirit . . . as Jesus told Nicodemus we ALL must be. That which is born as Spirit is Spirit . . . not flesh.

But you don't believe these things which are spelled out in the Bible and so don't believe in the true Jesus. This further puts the lie to your claim that you don't reject the Bible.

I do NOT reject the bible . . . I reject your and your mentors' interpretations of the bible as found in your "precepts and doctrines of men."

Repent or find out the hard way just how real the lake of fire is. Your choice.

I have repented of all that I need to repent of . . . but it has nothing to do with what you believe I need to repent of. The concern over what you believe about Christ and God is pointless . . . what matters is whether or not you follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" . . . and repent of the times you do not. THAT is where the "rubber meets the road."