The REAL Truth About Hell..... (Old Testament, messianic, Biblical, Jewish)

[ShanaBrown]

Hi there, those believers who hold to the eventual restoration of all to God are Christians/believers . The quotes from scriptures given above are from the KJV or similar translations.

You would rather believe man than the author`s of the bible. That would be like me translating a book that was written in spanish and translating it in English. Everywhere the word casa was written in the original language,I would translate it as car in English. You would go around believing everyone lived in cars just because I translated that way. Even when people showed you what the word casa meant in the original book and language, you wouldn`t care because your mind has been made up to believe it`s car

Lexicographers note the fact that it was not until the fifth century A.D. that theologians began to read the sense of endlessness into Bible words. Dr. Lewis S. Chafer deplores the difficulty that the average reader of the Bible will encounter in seeking to understand the real meaning of these passages, when he notes how hopelessly the KJV has obscured the word aion. He said, "The word, which in common usage has a limited meaning, is used by the translators as the one English rendering for at least four widely differing ideas in the original. So that if the truth contained in this important body of Scripture is to be understood, the student must not only know the various meanings which are expressed by the one word, but also be able to determine the correct use of it in the many passages in which it occurs. Therefore, the KJV has placed the simple truth they contain beyond the average reader of the Bible.

L. Abbott

we honor and serve a God that has the final say and has authority over EVERYTHING and we would not dare try and change HIS Word to suit ourselves.

Same here. God bless.

[ShanaBrown]

Seriously, we don't want to overlook the fire the Lord is using now to put our carnal nature to death.

Amen. God bless.

[little elmer]

Unstoppable force vs. immovable object.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by little elmer

That's what I've been saying also - we can explain their "hell" but they have no answer for restorative proof.

The bible will contradict itself if pitted "only a few" vs. "all". You have to see the plan of God laid out before you can reconcile scripture - and you can't do that until He opens your eyes; and I'M NOT putting anyone down if they haven't seen it yet.

Yet.

[daddythreepointoh]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

There is absolutely no need for me to quote scripture from the Bible when you don't even use the Bible in your arguments! Besides, we (Christians) have quoted them already, even right here in this thread.

It's already been discussed....you can go back two years and find thread after thread with universalists copying and pasting the same things and quoting the same "scriptures". Happy reading.

There cannot be a legitimate discussion when universalists do not use the Bible when quoting scriptures. The YLT is not the Bible....it is ONE man's interpretation of God's Holy Word. Universalists don't adhere to the Bible because it doesn't say what they want it to say.

Universalists want to discuss alternate meanings of words, not what God's Word actually says. Everything in the KJV was agreed upon by many scholars as being a proper and accurate translation. The fact that so many people were involved in the translation and that ALL AGREED that it was accurate is a miracle in and of itself and speaks to the very glaringly obvious fact that God had His Hand in it.

You accuse Christians of following some incorrect translation and man's teachings but actually that is EXACTLY what Universalists are doing, because you don't like what the Bible says.

The truth is that universalists follow ONE man's interpretation because they don't like the REAL truth. Most cults have ONE LEADER.
YLT was written by ONE MAN.
The Book or Mormon was written by ONE MAN.
The JW's and the Watchtower were started by ONE MAN.
Scientology was started by ONE MAN>>>>do you see a trend here??

Those that can see, see it very clearly. They are all lies, perpetrated by "anti-Christs". This spirit of the anti-christ is alive and thriving. They claim Christ, but everything they teach says otherwise. There's always enough truth mixed with the lies to make it seem legitimate.

Those of us who know that hell is real and eternal don't like it either, but we honor and serve a God that has the final say and has authority over EVERYTHING and we would not dare try and change HIS Word to suit ourselves.

Accept God's Word for what it is and win souls like we are commanded, rather than perpetuating the lie that one man created and trying to appease and ease your own minds. Your minds may be appeased temporarily in this life, but they will be eternally tormented in the next.

Either too proud to admit when she is wrong or God really has blinded her for His own reasons.

How else do you explain such blindness? There is simply no getting someone like this to have any real debate or understanding. She is obviously not willing.

The fact is, Ilene, that IMO, no offense, your entire post is full of more holes than Swiss cheese. I mean, CU's don't use the Bible? YLT is not really the Bible? Really?

If you really believe those statements then you obviously haven't studied the origins of the Bible or it's original translations at all. At all! And the facts are simply facts, Ilene, not the fevered imaginations of heretic CU's.

But you won't believe that, because you would have to humble yourself, and something tells me that's not going to happen.

Happy reading indeed.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh

Either too proud to admit when she is wrong or God really has blinded her for His own reasons.

How else do you explain such blindness? There is simply no getting someone like this to have any real debate or understanding. She is obviously not willing.

The fact is, Ilene, that IMO, no offense, your entire post is full of more holes than Swiss cheese. I mean, CU's don't use the Bible? YLT is not really the Bible? Really?

If you really believe those statements then you obviously haven't studied the origins of the Bible or it's original translations at all. At all! And the facts are simply facts, Ilene, not the fevered imaginations of heretic CU's.

But you won't believe that, because you would have to humble yourself, and something tells me that's not going to happen.

Happy reading indeed.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

There is absolutely no need for me to quote scripture from the Bible when you don't even use the Bible in your arguments! Besides, we (Christians) have quoted them already, even right here in this thread.

It's already been discussed....you can go back two years and find thread after thread with universalists copying and pasting the same things and quoting the same "scriptures". Happy reading.

There cannot be a legitimate discussion when universalists do not use the Bible when quoting scriptures. The YLT is not the Bible....it is ONE man's interpretation of God's Holy Word. Universalists don't adhere to the Bible because it doesn't say what they want it to say.

Universalists want to discuss alternate meanings of words, not what God's Word actually says. Everything in the KJV was agreed upon by many scholars as being a proper and accurate translation. The fact that so many people were involved in the translation and that ALL AGREED that it was accurate is a miracle in and of itself and speaks to the very glaringly obvious fact that God had His Hand in it.

You accuse Christians of following some incorrect translation and man's teachings but actually that is EXACTLY what Universalists are doing, because you don't like what the Bible says.

The truth is that universalists follow ONE man's interpretation because they don't like the REAL truth. Most cults have ONE LEADER.
YLT was written by ONE MAN.
The Book or Mormon was written by ONE MAN.
The JW's and the Watchtower were started by ONE MAN.
Scientology was started by ONE MAN>>>>do you see a trend here??

Those that can see, see it very clearly. They are all lies, perpetrated by "anti-Christs". This spirit of the anti-christ is alive and thriving. They claim Christ, but everything they teach says otherwise. There's always enough truth mixed with the lies to make it seem legitimate.

Those of us who know that hell is real and eternal don't like it either, but we honor and serve a God that has the final say and has authority over EVERYTHING and we would not dare try and change HIS Word to suit ourselves.

Accept God's Word for what it is and win souls like we are commanded, rather than perpetuating the lie that one man created and trying to appease and ease your own minds. Your minds may be appeased temporarily in this life, but they will be eternally tormented in the next.

For you lurkers on here, please take a long look at what this person has written. Then compare all of the scriptures that have been given to show that this person is in darkness. Please don`t believe that all christians are like her. I you to seek the truth. Get yourself a lexicon and concordance and seek the truth like God has commanded. Don`t just blindly follow man`s churchology like this person has obviously done. It is easy to just sit in church and listen to people tell you what to believe. But if youn want the truth, you have to search for it. God Bless!

[Ironmaw1776]

John 3:16
posted by
Ilene Wright

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Not repenting, not accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior = not saved from eternal hell

The word is PERISH, not eternal hell.

Perish : Greek apollymi - to be killed, destroyed.

The wages of sin is death, not eternal hell.

Oh yeah?? Where's the scripture to support that?
The scriptures I quoted (above) say nothing about eventual restoration of all....in fact, nowhere in the BIBLE does it say that. It's wishful thinking and it's serious misinterpretation of clear, straightforward scripture that even a child can understand. A child that believes what God says and knows better than to try and imply or suggest that scripture is saying something that it is clearly not saying."

Lady you are exasperating, how many times can someone read ...

Philippians 2:10–11 “That at the name of Jesus, every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY of God the Father.”

Ephesians 1:10 “That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.”

Colossians 1:20 “And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS to himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in heaven , or things in earth."


“For of him, and through him, and to him are ALL THINGS: to whom be glory for ever.”


... and not see "restoration of all" ... "RECONCILE ALL THINGS to himself" ... Hello? ...


There are so many more bible passages that tell us the same thing, over and over and over again. That is Gods good pleasure and the design of his his will to restore the whole of creation and to make all things new.

Yes is can be, and it is. The BIBLE says so. Hell isn't eternal in YOUR mind because you've been deceived by a false teaching. Jesus WILL fill all things, but not in the way you have been taught.

Please teach us then the meaning of God filling all things and being all in all If there are to be forever so many things separate from him?

There is absolutely no need for me to quote scripture from the Bible when you don't even use the Bible in your arguments! Besides, we (Christians) have quoted them already, even right here in this thread.

You know when i go back through this thread, and most others concerning reconciliation, i see that those who teach UR quote scripture far more often ... As there are are far more references to the eventual restoration of the world(kosmos) than to "hell".

The truth is that universalists follow ONE man's interpretation because they don't like the REAL truth. Most cults have ONE LEADER.

What on earth are you talking about? The doctrine of universal reconciliation has been alive in the world since the time of Christ and there is ample historical evidence to back it up. In the scheme of things it goes back into Jewish belief. The Jews never believed in eternal hell and they still don't to this day. Even they are aware of the prophecy of the eventual restitution of all things throughout the old testament. It obvious to anyone who has studied world religion that the doctrine of eternal torture was originally developed in Egyptian and especially Babylonian mythology. It(Zoroastriaism) had been imparted to some extent to the pharisees during Babylonian captivity and was emphasized by the Alexandrian influences of Rome which were the old Egyptian mysteries that had been assimilated into the Greek culture.

Did you know the Jewish synagogue system didn't exist until just after Babylonian captivity? No wonder the synagogue system so closely resembles that of the ancient Babylonian tradition. You don't realize what Jesus was dealing with during his time. You obviously don't realize we are still dealing with it today in the guise of most organized religion especially fundamental Christianity.

So you want to tell us that God wouldn't allow his "church" to become so lost? He allowed the inquisition to go around torturing and killing anyone who disagreed with them or who practiced any other religion, among how many other terrible things all in his name. God will not forever allow his name to be dragged through the mud. Yes judgment is coming, but it will be to the refining and cleansing of the whole universe in the end.

[ShanaBrown]

Thank you for sharing. God bless.

[Ilene Wright]

[quote=Ironmaw1776;9057806]

The doctrine of universal reconciliation has been alive in the world since the time of Christ and there is ample historical evidence to back it up. In the scheme of things it goes back into Jewish belief. The Jews never believed in eternal hell and they still don't to this day.

This is the only thing worth a response from that entire post.

The bolded part above speaks to the lie of universalism. Universalism is a new name for an old false teaching, just like "new ageism" is a "new" term to define false beliefs that go back to biblical times. None of this "stuff" is new.....it's like renaming bell bottom pants from the 70's to "wide legs" for the "new millenium". It's the same ugly thing, with a new "cooler" name.

The subtle lie here (remember, just enough truth to make the lie seem legit) is that even Jews don't believe in hell. Really? Which Jews?


Traditional Judaism includes belief in both heaven and hell, as we will see below. How is one's destination decided? The School of Shammai offered this description:

"There will be three groups on the Day of Judgment: one of thoroughly righteous people, one of thoroughly wicked people and one of people in between. The first group will be immediately inscribed for everlasting life; the second group will be doomed in Gehinnom [Hell], as it says, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence" [Daniel 12:2], the third will go down to Gehinnom and squeal and rise again, as it says, "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My name and I will answer them" [Zechariah 13:9]... [Babylonian Talmud, tractate Rosh Hashanah 16b-17a]"

Traditional Jews ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. They do not believe Jesus to be the Messiah....they are still looking for their Messiah. It doesn't matter what they believe about hell because they are not even Christians!! They will have to repent and receive Christ just like anyone else or suffer eternal damnation as well

Messianic Jews DO believe in Jesus Christ and DO believe in an eternal hell.

You have just proven.....in writing.....right here on city-data the twisted lies that spew out of the mouths of universalists.

I see you all are fond of directing comments to "seekers of the truth" or those lurking and reading. So I have my own advice to those seeking the TRUTH who may be reading this:

Please take heed to what Ilene Wright is saying because she is one of the few who have the truth. Satan is perpetuating one lie after another right now because he knows his time is growing short. He's pulling out all the stops, he's pulled every last thing out of his bag of evil tricks and unleashed it on the earth because we are living in the last days before the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Now is the time to accept Him and to remove yourself from the swirling cesspool of lies. Find a Bible-believing (KJV or equivalent) church or study group and immerse yourself in the Words of that Bible and question everything. Don't take any person's word on anything.....you believe ONLY what the Bible tells you. Jesus is waiting for you.