Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"There will be three groups on the Day of Judgment: one of thoroughly righteous people, one of thoroughly wicked people and one of people in between. The first group will be immediately inscribed for everlasting life; the second group will be doomed in Gehinnom [Hell], as it says, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence" [Daniel 12:2], the third will go down to Gehinnom and squeal and rise again, as it says, "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My name and I will answer them" [Zechariah 13:9]... [Babylonian Talmud, tractate Rosh Hashanah 16b-17a]"
Very interesting ... Mystery Babylon?
Quote:
"We do believe in a purgatory process(called Gehinnom), meaning that a soul may have to undergo cleansing (which is not very pleasant) for a period of time before it can enter Heaven."
Regards
Rabbi Ari Shishler
As i said in the above, the doctrine came into the pharisee sect from Babylonian Zoroastrianism, i.e Parsiism ...
Parsiism = Phariseeism ... Plain and simple ...
Quote:
"The earth is the battlefield between the force that promotes "Asha" (Truth) and the force that resists Asha. Through the three truths, "Manasmi", "Gavasmi" and "Kunisni", Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds, humans fight on God's side and win eternal life in heaven. Those who do evil deeds support Ahriman and are awaited by an eternal hell of many levels, which include a purgatory where a soul can cleanse itself."
Hmm, what does this sound like to you? This is the leaven of the Pharisees ... And it certainly has leavened the whole lump hasn't it?
On words that have been translated as “eternal”, “forever”, “incurable” in the scriptures
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
16:53-55).
Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).
The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).
An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):
Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).
The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).
Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.
The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);
Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).
"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).
Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).
So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until--
and His church confiscate the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).
The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
Once again...
Anyone care to take a look at these verses from the BIBLE....
and examine them??
Perish : Greek apollymi - to be killed, destroyed.
The wages of sin is death, not eternal hell.
Lady you are exasperating, how many times can someone read ...
Philippians 2:10–11 “That at the name of Jesus, every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY of God the Father.”
Ephesians 1:10 “That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.”
Colossians 1:20 “And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS to himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in heaven , or things in earth."
“For of him, and through him, and to him are ALL THINGS: to whom be glory for ever.”
... and not see "restoration of all" ... "RECONCILE ALL THINGS to himself" ... Hello? ...
There are so many more bible passages that tell us the same thing, over and over and over again. That is Gods good pleasure and the design of his his will to restore the whole of creation and to make all things new.
Please teach us then the meaning of God filling all things and being all in all If there are to be forever so many things separate from him?
You know when i go back through this thread, and most others concerning reconciliation, i see that those who teach UR quote scripture far more often ... As there are are far more references to the eventual restoration of the world(kosmos) than to "hell".
What on earth are you talking about? The doctrine of universal reconciliation has been alive in the world since the time of Christ and there is ample historical evidence to back it up. In the scheme of things it goes back into Jewish belief. The Jews never believed in eternal hell and they still don't to this day. Even they are aware of the prophecy of the eventual restitution of all things throughout the old testament. It obvious to anyone who has studied world religion that the doctrine of eternal torture was originally developed in Egyptian and especially Babylonian mythology. It(Zoroastriaism) had been imparted to some extent to the pharisees during Babylonian captivity and was emphasized by the Alexandrian influences of Rome which were the old Egyptian mysteries that had been assimilated into the Greek culture.
Did you know the Jewish synagogue system didn't exist until just after Babylonian captivity? No wonder the synagogue system so closely resembles that of the ancient Babylonian tradition. You don't realize what Jesus was dealing with during his time. You obviously don't realize we are still dealing with it today in the guise of most organized religion especially fundamental Christianity.
So you want to tell us that God wouldn't allow his "church" to become so lost? He allowed the inquisition to go around torturing and killing anyone who disagreed with them or who practiced any other religion, among how many other terrible things all in his name. God will not forever allow his name to be dragged through the mud. Yes judgment is coming, but it will be to the refining and cleansing of the whole universe in the end.
The truth is that universalists follow ONE man's interpretation because they don't like the REAL truth. Most cults have ONE LEADER.
YLT was written by ONE MAN.
The Book or Mormon was written by ONE MAN.
The JW's and the Watchtower were started by ONE MAN.
Scientology was started by ONE MAN>>>>do you see a trend here??
It's even clear in the KJV that is full of mistranlation . Absolutely nothing to do with man
The truth is that universalists follow ONE man's interpretation because they don't like the REAL truth. Most cults have ONE LEADER.
YLT was written by ONE MAN.
The Book or Mormon was written by ONE MAN.
The JW's and the Watchtower were started by ONE MAN.
Scientology was started by ONE MAN>>>>do you see a trend here??
It's even clear in the KJV that is full of mistranlation . Absolutely nothing to do with man
Is this the best you can do? (which, btw, makes NO sense) How about quoting my entire post....you know....the hard-hitting truth that you can't dispute?
The truth is that universalists follow ONE man's interpretation because they don't like the REAL truth. Most cults have ONE LEADER.
YLT was written by ONE MAN.
The Book or Mormon was written by ONE MAN.
The JW's and the Watchtower were started by ONE MAN.
Scientology was started by ONE MAN>>>>do you see a trend here??
It's even clear in the KJV that is full of mistranlation . Absolutely nothing to do with man
I guess one didn't get their appetite satisfied in the other thread..!
Once again...
Anyone care to take a look at these verses from the BIBLE....
and examine them??
Thanks,
Sparrow
I directly quoted you the last time you said this and I gave you a response....you just didn't like it. Enough already. They are verses from YLT....not the BIBLE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
There is absolutely no need for me to quote scripture from the Bible when you don't even use the Bible in your arguments! Besides, we (Christians) have quoted them already, even right here in this thread.
It's already been discussed....you can go back two years and find thread after thread with universalists copying and pasting the same things and quoting the same "scriptures". Happy reading.
There cannot be a legitimate discussion when universalists do not use the Bible when quoting scriptures. The YLT is not the Bible....it is ONE man's interpretation of God's Holy Word. Universalists don't adhere to the Bible because it doesn't say what they want it to say.
Universalists want to discuss alternate meanings of words, not what God's Word actually says. Everything in the KJV was agreed upon by many scholars as being a proper and accurate translation. The fact that so many people were involved in the translation and that ALL AGREED that it was accurate is a miracle in and of itself and speaks to the very glaringly obvious fact that God had His Hand in it.
You accuse Christians of following some incorrect translation and man's teachings but actually that is EXACTLY what Universalists are doing, because you don't like what the Bible says.
The truth is that universalists follow ONE man's interpretation because they don't like the REAL truth. Most cults have ONE LEADER.
YLT was written by ONE MAN.
The Book or Mormon was written by ONE MAN.
The JW's and the Watchtower were started by ONE MAN.
Scientology was started by ONE MAN>>>>do you see a trend here??
Those that can see, see it very clearly. They are all lies, perpetrated by "anti-Christs". This spirit of the anti-christ is alive and thriving. They claim Christ, but everything they teach says otherwise. There's always enough truth mixed with the lies to make it seem legitimate.
Those of us who know that hell is real and eternal don't like it either, but we honor and serve a God that has the final say and has authority over EVERYTHING and we would not dare try and change HIS Word to suit ourselves.
Accept God's Word for what it is and win souls like we are commanded, rather than perpetuating the lie that one man created and trying to appease and ease your own minds. Your minds may be appeased temporarily in this life, but they will be eternally tormented in the next.
This is the only thing worth a response from that entire post.
(No answers)
The bolded part above speaks to the lie of universalism.
[rhetoric begin here]
Universalism is a new name for an old false teaching, just like "new ageism" is a "new" term to define false beliefs that go back to biblical times. None of this "stuff" is new.....it's like renaming bell bottom pants from the 70's to "wide legs" for the "new millenium". It's the same ugly thing, with a new "cooler" name.
The subtle lie here (remember, just enough truth to make the lie seem legit) is that even Jews don't believe in hell. Really? Which Jews?
Traditional Judaism includes belief in both heaven and hell, as we will see below. How is one's destination decided? The School of Shammai offered this description:
"There will be three groups on the Day of Judgment: one of thoroughly righteous people, one of thoroughly wicked people and one of people in between. The first group will be immediately inscribed for everlasting life; the second group will be doomed in Gehinnom [Hell], as it says, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence" [Daniel 12:2], the third will go down to Gehinnom and squeal and rise again, as it says, "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My name and I will answer them" [Zechariah 13:9]... [Babylonian Talmud, tractate Rosh Hashanah 16b-17a]"
Traditional Jews ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. They do not believe Jesus to be the Messiah....they are still looking for their Messiah. It doesn't matter what they believe about hell because they are not even Christians!! They will have to repent and receive Christ just like anyone else or suffer eternal damnation as well
Messianic Jews DO believe in Jesus Christ and DO believe in an eternal hell.
You have just proven.....in writing.....right here on city-data the twisted lies that spew out of the mouths of universalists.
[rhetoric end here]
I see you all are fond of directing comments to "seekers of the truth" or those lurking and reading. So I have my own advice to those seeking the TRUTH who may be reading this:
Please take heed to what Ilene Wright is saying because she is one of the few who have the truth. -
(In your own words nevertheless!!!) -
[begin rhetoric]
Satan is perpetuating one lie after another right now because he knows his time is growing short. He's pulling out all the stops, he's pulled every last thing out of his bag of evil tricks and unleashed it on the earth because we are living in the last days before the second coming of Jesus Christ.
Now is the time to accept Him and to remove yourself from the swirling cesspool of lies. Find a Bible-believing (KJV or equivalent) church or study group and immerse yourself in the Words of that Bible and question everything. Don't take any person's word on anything.....you believe ONLY what the Bible tells you. Jesus is waiting for you.
Quote:
See what I mean, folks? No answers, just more nonsensical rhetoric.
[end rhetoric]
But, the TRUTH always comes shining through!! Thank you, Lord Jesus!
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is the leaven of the Pharisees ... And it certainly has leavened the whole lump hasn't it?
... 
Besides, we (Christians) have quoted them already, even right here in this thread.
