Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Assuming you are saved and get to Heaven through the Blood of Christ; you will then be given a spiritual body (not a mortal body). Sin no longer remains and you serve the Lord your God forevermore.
Assuming you are saved and get to Heaven through the Blood of Christ; you will then be given a spiritual body (not a mortal body). Sin no longer remains and you serve the Lord your God forevermore.
What a joy that will be-to serve our LORD and Saviour for eternity.
Are you saying we must repent once and only once? Are you saying that if we do something wrong once we have been "saved," we need feel no remorse or intent to improve in the future?
Our salvation is secure based upon our faith in Christ and obedience to His commandments. It is impossible to truly have faith in Him if we are not faithful to Him.
Why do people who insist that we are saved by faith alone ignore the following verses:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
John 15:10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
2Timothy: 2-19 Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having the seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
By having nothing more than a dead faith, a faith that is not made perfect by our works of obedience.
By enduring to the end.
It's not a matter of a percentage at all. We are all equally in need of a Savior, and our Savior expects the same thing from all of us: 100% of our love, commitment, and faithfulness.
I don't know how I overlooked your post, but I agree with you that some christians are not christians at all, I would say that they are churchians who have this dead faith, and they don't trust Jesus at all to save them. They are just blindly thinking that if by following their legalistic list of "DO NOT SINS--fornicating, stealing, lying, gambling, drinking, smoking, coveting, hating, and cursing" that they are some how saved. How sad. We need to be obedient--because faith without works is DEAD, but at the same time we need to Trust and OBEY Jesus so that we can be obedient to His will, instead of trusting in our flesh to keep us right with God.
1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a complete reversal of regeneration. In other words, this means that the person born again must become unborn again. Also, if that person repents, then that person must become born again again. Therefore, can a persoN also be born again, again and again? Where does it end? Is regeneration not permanent?
2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?
3. Another point to consider is if we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it---fornication, homosexuality, adultery, drunkardness etc. When you think about it, it makes it at least some what dependent on our own merits instead of our dependence on the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us. Also, this is in sync with the Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, DEPENDENT ON HIM, NOT US. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. God wants no one to boast about how they got into heaven,and that is why salvation is offered completely by Him and by Him alone through his Son.
I could just imagine people saying when they got to heaven, how I did this, and did that to get into heaven, and questioning others about what they did to get there, and if the other person didn't do enough good deeds then it would probably be an issue for those persons would would think it wasn't fair that some christians got into heaven by doing lesser deeds or works than them, which God never intended in the first place.
4. These are just some questions for you to ponder. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 90% God and 10% us? We earn rewards by our work for God through our faith in Jesus Christ as a result of becoming a new creation/creature in Christ, done in TOTAL dependence on Him, but salvation is not earned; it's not a reward. IT'S A GIFT OF GOD, EARNED ONLY BY CHRIST, NOT US.
It is not possible to lose salvation, it is possible to make your life and others a living destructive mess on the way. It is not possible to avoid at some point, to be accountable for what you were responsible for. Such is the law of reaping what you sow.
How sad. We need to be obedient--because faith without works is DEAD, but at the same time we need to Trust and OBEY Jesus so that we can be obedient to His will, instead of trusting in our flesh to keep us right with God.
I agree that we are to solely trust in Jesus so we can be obedient to God's will. Is it God's will for us to sin? Of course not. Jesus gives us the power to rise above sin, and thus refrain from the works of the flesh. Jesus came to set the captives free from the bondage of sin. Therefore, once we are free, God expects us to have victory over sin when it comes to tempt us. There is to be no more giving into the weakness of our flesh by committing sin. We are to stand tall in the truth, no matter how much it burns the flesh. This is the victory that Jesus brought and willed to us in the New Testament. Will it bring persecution? It sure will, as Jesus told us so.
Now, people could come to the Lord with contrite hearts and receive the Gospel gladly; they journey for awhile. Once the persecutions come, or the temptation for sin comes, they are offended. They turn away to another gospel, i.e., UR, eternal security and/or other false doctrines; or, they fall away completely to no faith at all.
There are those that teach that we will always be sinners because we are weak fleshly creatures. These people have no idea what the new birth is all about. They have formed these theories of men and tried to make it the Gospel; it's dead deceit and nothing more.
It takes prayer, fasting and walking in the Word to have this continuous victory. God has called us to holiness, and He imparts the power to do it. Seek God with all your heart, and you will find Him. Lay aside all theories and say "Lord, I want to know and abide in your truth no matter the cost". How could Jesus resist such humility and hunger?
Matt. 5
[5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
[6] Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
[7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
[8] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
[9] Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
[10] Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[11] Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
[12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
[13] Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?
Comments, and a note or two of clarification:
Eternity cannot be "lost". Eternity does not "suddenly begin" when we die, because it already is. We don't have to hope for it...because we already have it. You are already existant in eternity. The death of the body is but a doorway...where we all will trade a life in the physical world for one in the spiritual world(s). What they are referring to when they say "salvation can be lost" is that spending eternity with God can be lost, that one may possibly have to spend eternity apart from God...if they somehow screw up.
There is such widespread confusion over the words "eternal life", and the very common idea that "you don't have eternal life unless you become a Christian". Yes, you do...you already have it. There has always been eternal life, and there always will be. You will either spend eternal life with God, in His presense, or you will spend eternal life elsewhere, apart from Him. If you are a Christian, then you are already spending your life with Him. If you are not a Christian, they you are already spending your life without Him. Both conditions are eternal, but widely different. Salvation is a life-long process of changing one's life to and eternity with God, not one apart from God. It is not merely a 30-second long prayer of salvation, and that's the end of it. That is just a beginning. Remember, the Bible says "he who endures to the end shall be saved". Salvation is a free gift, but we are expected to learn and grow, not say a prayer and then spend the rest of our lives in stagnation. One of the two conditions (saved, not saved) will (eventually) be fun, joyful, and exciting. The other will not be. In that sense, yes...one can lose salvation...but they cannot lose eternal life. Eternal life and salvation are two entirely different topics...they are not one and the same. Yes, I know they are related, but they are not the same thing...
The question ought to be: where will we spend eternal life? (that we already have) With God? Or not with God? You don't "gain eternal life" by becoming a Christian. But you DO gain an eternal life with God, and not an eternal life somewhere else away from Him. The death of the body is not the death of the soul and spirit. You don't suddenly stop existing at death, simply because you didn't happen to be a Christian when you died. You are still you, minus the old body which has worn out...and you have left behind...
You might relate life as a Christian to be a sort of "boot camp"...in preparation and learning for what is forth-coming on the other side of death's door. There is one who has gone on before us, and found the correct way. His name is Jesus. We ought to listen to Him.
Eternity cannot be "lost". Eternity does not "suddenly begin" when we die, because it already is. We don't have to hope for it...because we already have it. You are already existant in eternity. The death of the body is but a doorway...where we all will trade a life in the physical world for one in the spiritual world(s). What they are referring to when they say "salvation can be lost" is that spending eternity with God can be lost, that one may possibly have to spend eternity apart from God...if they somehow screw up.
There is such widespread confusion over the words "eternal life", and the very common idea that "you don't have eternal life unless you become a Christian". Yes, you do...you already have it. There has always been eternal life, and there always will be. You will either spend eternal life with God, in His presense, or you will spend eternal life elsewhere, apart from Him. If you are a Christian, then you are already spending your life with Him. If you are not a Christian, they you are already spending your life without Him. Both conditions are eternal, but widely different. Salvation is a life-long process of changing one's life to and eternity with God, not one apart from God. It is not merely a 30-second long prayer of salvation, and that's the end of it. That is just a beginning. Remember, the Bible says "he who endures to the end shall be saved". Salvation is a free gift, but we are expected to learn and grow, not say a prayer and then spend the rest of our lives in stagnation. One of the two conditions (saved, not saved) will (eventually) be fun, joyful, and exciting. The other will not be. In that sense, yes...one can lose salvation...but they cannot lose eternal life. Eternal life and salvation are two entirely different topics...they are not one and the same. Yes, I know they are related, but they are not the same thing...
The question ought to be: where will we spend eternal life? (that we already have) With God? Or not with God? You don't "gain eternal life" by becoming a Christian. But you DO gain an eternal life with God, and not an eternal life somewhere else away from Him. The death of the body is not the death of the soul and spirit. You don't suddenly stop existing at death, simply because you didn't happen to be a Christian when you died. You are still you, minus the old body which has worn out...and you have left behind...
You might relate life as a Christian to be a sort of "boot camp"...in preparation and learning for what is forth-coming on the other side of death's door. There is one who has gone on before us, and found the correct way. His name is Jesus. We ought to listen to Him.
Bud
Thank you, and I agree with you. I have always figured that if you are not with God in eternity or should I say in His presence, then you are in one hell of a mess.
Eternity cannot be "lost". Eternity does not "suddenly begin" when we die, because it already is. We don't have to hope for it...because we already have it. You are already existant in eternity. The death of the body is but a doorway...where we all will trade a life in the physical world for one in the spiritual world(s). What they are referring to when they say "salvation can be lost" is that spending eternity with God can be lost, that one may possibly have to spend eternity apart from God...if they somehow screw up.
There is such widespread confusion over the words "eternal life", and the very common idea that "you don't have eternal life unless you become a Christian". Yes, you do...you already have it. There has always been eternal life, and there always will be. You will either spend eternal life with God, in His presense, or you will spend eternal life elsewhere, apart from Him. If you are a Christian, then you are already spending your life with Him. If you are not a Christian, they you are already spending your life without Him. Both conditions are eternal, but widely different. Salvation is a life-long process of changing one's life to and eternity with God, not one apart from God. It is not merely a 30-second long prayer of salvation, and that's the end of it. That is just a beginning. Remember, the Bible says "he who endures to the end shall be saved". Salvation is a free gift, but we are expected to learn and grow, not say a prayer and then spend the rest of our lives in stagnation. One of the two conditions (saved, not saved) will (eventually) be fun, joyful, and exciting. The other will not be. In that sense, yes...one can lose salvation...but they cannot lose eternal life. Eternal life and salvation are two entirely different topics...they are not one and the same. Yes, I know they are related, but they are not the same thing...
The question ought to be: where will we spend eternal life? (that we already have) With God? Or not with God? You don't "gain eternal life" by becoming a Christian. But you DO gain an eternal life with God, and not an eternal life somewhere else away from Him. The death of the body is not the death of the soul and spirit. You don't suddenly stop existing at death, simply because you didn't happen to be a Christian when you died. You are still you, minus the old body which has worn out...and you have left behind...
You might relate life as a Christian to be a sort of "boot camp"...in preparation and learning for what is forth-coming on the other side of death's door. There is one who has gone on before us, and found the correct way. His name is Jesus. We ought to listen to Him.
Bud
...Amen!...
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd
Thank you, and I agree with you. I have always figured that if you are not with God in eternity or should I say in His presence, then you are in one hell of a mess.
1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a complete reversal of regeneration. In other words, this means that the person born again must become unborn again. Also, if that person repents, then that person must become born again again. Therefore, can a persoN also be born again, again and again? Where does it end? Is regeneration not permanent?
2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?
3. Another point to consider is if we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it---fornication, homosexuality, adultery, drunkardness etc. When you think about it, it makes it at least some what dependent on our own merits instead of our dependence on the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us. Also, this is in sync with the Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, DEPENDENT ON HIM, NOT US. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. God wants no one to boast about how they got into heaven,and that is why salvation is offered completely by Him and by Him alone through his Son.
I could just imagine people saying when they got to heaven, how I did this, and did that to get into heaven, and questioning others about what they did to get there, and if the other person didn't do enough good deeds then it would probably be an issue for those persons would would think it wasn't fair that some christians got into heaven by doing lesser deeds or works than them, which God never intended in the first place.
4. These are just some questions for you to ponder. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 90% God and 10% us? We earn rewards by our work for God through our faith in Jesus Christ as a result of becoming a new creation/creature in Christ, done in TOTAL dependence on Him, but salvation is not earned; it's not a reward. IT'S A GIFT OF GOD, EARNED ONLY BY CHRIST, NOT US.
Antredd, those are definitely valid points, but I really don't know where I stand with OSAS because of the verses below. I haven't read the responses on this thread so these might have already been discussed.
Mark 13:13 “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
1 Cor 15:2 "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
1 Cor 10:12 "So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall."
1 John 2:3-6 "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [5] But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
2 Peter 3:17 "Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."
What about the second soil in the parable of the sower?
Luke 8:13 "Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
