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Hi Just1man, I noticed in a few of your post you keep saying that after the GWT judgment no one can be saved and they are in the lake of fire for all eternity because their name are not written in the book of life.
Question, how does one get their names written in the book of life? Is it not by being obedient to all that God commands and accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour?
We all know that every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God, that no man can confess Jesus as Lord but by the Holy Spirit and that confession is made unto salvation.
Therefore, it should be known to all that everyone accepts Christ as Lord and are saved.
So let’s look at the scriptures that talk about what happens to those outside the gates of the city AFTER the GWT judgment has passed.
Revelation 22:14-17
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Who are these people who are without the gate?
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Answer: the dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars.
What does the scriptures say of these people who are without the gate?
Do they say like the churches would have us believe, to bad for you there is no more he hope for you?
Or do they say
If those who are without the gate obey His commandment they have the right to the tree of life and can ENTER in through the GATES INTO THE CITY?
Is it not plan that those dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars if obedient to the commandments of God can ENTER into the city?
Pretty much debunks the eternal torment issue doesn’t it.
But how can this be the church will say?
The answer is found in verse 17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The Spirit and the bride continue to say let him who is thirsty come and take of the water of life FREELY.
Thus we can see the Spirit and the bride continue to call to all without the gate and those same people outside the gate if obedient to God have right to the tree of life and can then enter into city.
Do you realise that when you teach people will live forever in eternal torment you are teaching that there is eternal life apart from God? Yet you will not find that anywhere in scripture for eternal life is only found in God through Jesus Christ. So can you explain why you believe people have eternal life outside of Christ?
As to your point of aionios when applied to God please read the link below.
Hi Just1man, I noticed in a few of your post you keep saying that after the GWT judgment no one can be saved and they are in the lake of fire for all eternity because their name are not written in the book of life.
Question, how does one get their names written in the book of life? Is it not by being obedient to all that God commands and accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour?
We all know that every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God, that no man can confess Jesus as Lord but by the Holy Spirit and that confession is made unto salvation.
Therefore, it should be known to all that everyone accepts Christ as Lord and are saved.
So let’s look at the scriptures that talk about what happens to those outside the gates of the city AFTER the GWT judgment has passed.
Revelation 22:14-17
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Who are these people who are without the gate?
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Answer: the dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars.
What does the scriptures say of these people who are without the gate?
Do they say like the churches would have us believe, to bad for you there is no more he hope for you?
Or do they say
If those who are without the gate obey His commandment they have the right to the tree of life and can ENTER in through the GATES INTO THE CITY?
Is it not plan that those dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars if obedient to the commandments of God can ENTER into the city?
Pretty much debunks the eternal torment issue doesn’t it.
But how can this be the church will say?
The answer is found in verse 17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The Spirit and the bride continue to say let him who is thirsty come and take of the water of life FREELY.
Thus we can see the Spirit and the bride continue to call to all without the gate and those same people outside the gate if obedient to God have right to the tree of life and can then enter into city.
Do you realise that when you teach people will live forever in eternal torment you are teaching that there is eternal life apart from God? Yet you will not find that anywhere in scripture for eternal life is only found in God through Jesus Christ. So can you explain why you believe people have eternal life outside of Christ?
As to your point of aionios when applied to God please read the link below.
Well said and great article. Exactly what I mean when I say it is a shame how the mistranslation of a few words can cause chaos within the Body of Christ.
It's funny that believers in ET (eternal torment) often act like the description of the Lake of Fire seals the fate of the non-believers, yet just after that it speaks of those outside the New Jerusalem being invited to come in (all those that are thirsty etc.).
Nice post btw! When I first heard of this thought being described in Revelation I almost cried tears of joy!
Hi Just1man, I noticed in a few of your post you keep saying that after the GWT judgment no one can be saved and they are in the lake of fire for all eternity because their name are not written in the book of life.
Question, how does one get their names written in the book of life? Is it not by being obedient to all that God commands and accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour?
We all know that every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God, that no man can confess Jesus as Lord but by the Holy Spirit and that confession is made unto salvation.
Therefore, it should be known to all that everyone accepts Christ as Lord and are saved.
So let’s look at the scriptures that talk about what happens to those outside the gates of the city AFTER the GWT judgment has passed.
Revelation 22:14-17
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Who are these people who are without the gate?
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Answer: the dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars.
What does the scriptures say of these people who are without the gate?
Do they say like the churches would have us believe, to bad for you there is no more he hope for you?
Or do they say
If those who are without the gate obey His commandment they have the right to the tree of life and can ENTER in through the GATES INTO THE CITY?
Is it not plan that those dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars if obedient to the commandments of God can ENTER into the city?
Pretty much debunks the eternal torment issue doesn’t it.
But how can this be the church will say?
The answer is found in verse 17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The Spirit and the bride continue to say let him who is thirsty come and take of the water of life FREELY.
Thus we can see the Spirit and the bride continue to call to all without the gate and those same people outside the gate if obedient to God have right to the tree of life and can then enter into city.
Do you realise that when you teach people will live forever in eternal torment you are teaching that there is eternal life apart from God? Yet you will not find that anywhere in scripture for eternal life is only found in God through Jesus Christ. So can you explain why you believe people have eternal life outside of Christ?
As to your point of aionios when applied to God please read the link below.
No it's plain that the dogs, sorcerers, sexually immoral, murders, idol worshipers CANNOT enter. They are outside. They were judged and condemned and are forever separated from the Lord.
No it's plain that the dogs, sorcerers, sexually immoral, murders, idol worshipers CANNOT enter. They are outside. They were judged and condemned and are forever separated from the Lord.
Very good ILNC. It seems the Universalists can harp on "ALL" being ALL, but they cannot understand "CANNOT" means "CANNOT" !
Very good ILNC. It seems the Universalists can harp on "ALL" being ALL, but they cannot understand "CANNOT" means "CANNOT" !
Towhee,
How can you a sinner enter the kingdom of God then? - by repenting.
How can the murderers, liars, dogs enter the kingdom of God who have not repented before judgement for their deeds? - by repenting. Whoever calls on God will be heard.
Here it says that there is an everlasting gospel to be preached - if the gospel is only open till our physical death, it is not everlasting Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
I believe it is an age long gospel that is still being preached to those that are dead and being judged in the ages.
The gospel is preached to those also that are dead so that they are judged as men in the flesh (judged for their works and deeds done in the flesh) but they live according to God in the Spirit.
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
The resurrection is not about reviving someone while they have any thing corrupt in them and to be tormented forever - the 2 are not compatible.
The resurrection is about Spirit and life - not corruption becoming immortal. It is about deliverance from corruption.
Very good ILNC. It seems the Universalists can harp on "ALL" being ALL, but they cannot understand "CANNOT" means "CANNOT"
Hi, the scriptures do not say that all cannot be reconciled to God. That is man's perspective. With God all things are possible. And He always accomplishes whatever He purposes to do. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-28-2009 at 06:34 PM..
Hi, the scriptures do not say that all cannot be reconciled to God. That is man's perspective. With God all things are possible. And He always accomplishes whatever He purposes to do. God bless.
Hi, yes the Scriptures do say that all will not be reconciled to God. Man's perspective is that "everyone gets in" in the end. But I do agree with God all things are possible and He will accomplish whatever He purposes to do.
Very good ILNC. It seems the Universalists can harp on "ALL" being ALL, but they cannot understand "CANNOT" means "CANNOT" !
This is simply an exploitation of an error that can be made, but does not seal any error of a universalist.
You can show that various places in the bible that ALL has a contextual issue for "as many as" concerning the context in question.
That does not prove that ALL is not in context properly with all mankind when it comes to their reconciliation.
People who are so quick to exploit these oversights also overlook that their arguments against a God who loves his creation so much that he will reconcile every atom of it damn themselves in the process.
Ja 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
Based just on that one verse, and there are some others, you cannot prove that you will make it, so I have no reason to see a greater hope than I have already seen.
Do you keep the whole law? Well, you might claim that, you might offer some sort of evidence, but it will not be solid in scriptural evidence where it counts.
The average universalist may indeed be shown that he doesn't see a scripture here or there completely right. But all sects of beliefs have that issue, there is not one person that will understand the entire bible completely. We all learn and grow day to day and see error in our walk at times, welcome to the human race.
So that leaves faith in a God that has the power worth placing our hope in. It sure isn't a God that will leave some out, because you cannot show it won't be you.
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