The Bottom Line if God will not Save All (doctrine, beliefs, scripture)

[legoman]

1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Scripture tells us that God will have all men to be saved, but not many believe it.

For those that would consign most of humanity to an eternity of torture, here is the Bottom Line:

If God does not save everyone, that is either because--
(1) He cannot
or--
(2) He will not.


Which do you think it is?


See this article for a full discussion from the universal salvation point of view.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by legoman

1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Scripture tells us that God will have all men to be saved, but not many believe it.

For those that would consign most of humanity to an eternity of torture, here is the Bottom Line:

If God does not save everyone, that is either because--
(1) He cannot
or--
(2) He will not.


Which do you think it is?


See this article for a full discussion from the universal salvation point of view.

(3) He failed to perform is will
(4) His word returned to Him void
(5) Mans will is greater
(6) The devil is greater than God

[little elmer]

7) His arm has been shortened that it cannot save
8) It's not "finished"

[.sparrow.]

9. God isn't "Love".

[kdbrich]

(2) He will not.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

(2) He will not.

So He won't because He doesn't want to? I assume you think He is able to because you didn't say "(1) He cannot"


Why would God not want to save most of His own creation?

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by legoman

So He won't because He doesn't want to? I assume you think He is able to because you didn't say "(1) He cannot"


Why would God not want to save most of His own creation?

Seems like there's two options here, too:

Either

1)God only loves a select group and is not concerned with saving all men or

2)God's greater desire is that all men come to Him of their own free will and that overrides His desire to save them.

[RobinD69]

God does not lie and He is a God of justice and if any reject Him unto death He has still saved them for eternal torment.

[ShanaBrown]

I know that you posted to those who believe in eternal torment, legoman, but to me if eternal torment is the consequence and if God does not save, He is a God who sees beginning to end, knowing what would happen in the creation, knowing ahead of time that the majority would be lost, yet He brings them into existence anyway. This does not manifest agape love or His power to enlighten and defeat deceit, evil, and sin. The works of satan reign forever, but He sent His Son to destroy the works of satan. He brings most into being saying that He is their Savior, yet He never plans to. It is a contradiction. God bless.

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

I know that you posted to those who believe in eternal torment, legoman.

I realize this too but since it wasn't very long ago that I was a staunch defender of that doctrine, I think I have a pretty good grasp on how an ETer looks at this and that's why I've gone and stuck my nose in where it perhaps doesn't belong . As long as I'm here anyway, I might as well throw in the other half of my .02.

Legoman has the options right, imho:

If God doesn't save all men it's either because He can't or won't. I honestly know of very few Christians who would say that God is not able to save all. I think the second option is where most of them will stand and then the vast majority are going to fall into 2 subcategories:

He won't because He doesn't want to (limited atonement).
He won't because He will not override the free will of men (synergism).

Frankly, I think both can make a Biblical case for their beliefs and I do not fault anyone for sticking to their guns on these issues. I know of no one who holds to the doctrine of ET who would intentionally malign the love of God. I also understand that to an ETer the UR doctrine, when it is not rightly understood, maligns the holiness and justness of God.

For almost as long as I can remember I have wrestled with the question in regard to salvation, "Why some and not others?" It was in studying to refute UR that I came to understand that all those "contradictory" passages in Scripture were no longer contradictory once looked at through the lens of God's ultimate plan of reconcilation.

I propose to those ETers who may be reading this thread that it is not logical for you to dismiss those of us who hold to UR as being un-Christian or not respecting Scripture. Those who hold to limited atonement must reconcile passages which on the face of it do not support that belief. The same is true of those who hold to "free will". And the same is true of URists who must reconcile passages which on the face of it, do not support their beliefs. All of us reconcile those passages based on our best understanding of Who God is according to what He has revealed of Himself in Scripture. If you (URists or ETers) deny this, I have to submit to you that I do not believe you are being honest with yourself. And for any of us to dismiss another as non-Christian because of it is a gross misjustice to Christ's Body, imo.

Well, I guess that was way more than 2 cents worth.

I just would like to commend those of you who are willing to discuss these things on this forum. Through witnessing just such debates, and participating in them myself, I was forced to dig deeper into the Word to defend my ET beliefs. And blessed surprise! My eyes were open to a heighth and depth and breadth and width of God's love that I could never have imagined possible.