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1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
with 1 thess 4:
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
There is a 4 fold agreement between the Two passages:
1. Jesus said: I will come again..jn 14 3
1a Paul wrote: The Lord himself shall descend from heaven 1 thess 4 16
2.Jesus said: I will recieve you to myself jn 14 3
2a. Paul wrote: The saints shall be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air 1 thess 4 17
3. Jesus said: Where i am, there ye may also
3a. Paul wrote: So shall we forever be with the Lord
4: Jesus began by saying, let not your heart be troubled jn 14 1
4a paul in concluding: wherefore comfort one another with these words.
This confirms the Divine Authorship of scripture and His Sovereignty over the minds and penmenship of the various writers of scripture..along with the symmetry of truth from one book to the other..
beloved57: Would you mind setting up the CONTEXT of John 14 and 1 Thessalonians 4? I notice that you again failed to give any consideration for audience relevance in these passages. What did Jesus' words and Paul's words mean to those who first heard them? Or does that not matter?
The words written in the Text about the Lord's return are there so that we can read them and have faith they we will not be forgotten.
I know it has been a long time, but we should expect it to take a long time too.
There is a story Jesus told us about the Return and how the lord in the story was gone from his house for a long time...the Lord of the house delayed his return to the point where a foolish servant might think the Lord will never return.
So we are warned by Jesus that his future return would be a long-long time in coming...
But yet we are also warned that we should also believe this is the "last days" because we must always be ready....
we must be ready at any moment for the return to happen....
Beloved,
I have not had any luck in finding a place where you are in error...
lets turn the situation around and ask you to point out any place where you think I am in error on this topic?
The context is fine, if you dont think so, prove it..
Very well, beloved57. Using the very basic, fundamental principles of hermeneutics and sound exegesis, the interpreter must begin with the simple words themselves--who wrote them, why did he write them, to whom did he write, who is speaking, to whom is he speaking, and why is he saying to them what he is saying?
Clearly this is John's Gospel. As an inspired apostle of Christ, he was compelled to write these things. John is relating an incident concerning the Lord's soon departure. John himself is present (John 14).
The Lord is about to leave those very disciples right there with Him. THEY have spent years with Him, learning from Him, talking with Him, living with Him--THEY love Him beyond words. Now He is to leave THEM. THEIR hearts were troubled in a way no other disciples' hearts have ever been troubled. It was from these disciples and from these disciples alone that Jesus departed. He has never departed from any other disciples in a similar way. THEIR situation was unique. Jesus' words were meant to first of all comfort THEM!
Let not YOUR hearts be troubled, Jesus told THEM. He was going to leave THEM, but He was going away to prepare a place for THEM, and He would come back for THEM to receive THEM unto Himself that where He was THEY would be also. That is the context and that is the audience. Has He not prepared a place for all believers as well? Of course! But He was to come back to only THOSE believers right there with Him. That was THEIR comfort. What comfort could Jesus' words to THEM have been if He still has not returned? He came to THEM; those who had died in Him were caught up together with those who were still alive at His coming.
All of this ties in with 1 Thessalonians 4. Considering closely the sitz im leben and the audience relevance here, we find that paul said "WE" who are alive and remain." He meant "we" in the commonly understood way all of us understand it when we use it. He meant himself and those to whom he was first of all writing--those very Thessalonians of his day. THEY would be caught up with the dead in Christ and meet the Lord in the air--whether physically or spiritually and whether we can "see" it or not, it happened!
Very well, beloved57. Using the very basic, fundamental principles of hermeneutics and sound exegesis, the interpreter must begin with the simple words themselves--who wrote them, why did he write them, to whom did he write, who is speaking, to whom is he speaking, and why is he saying to them what he is saying?
Clearly this is John's Gospel. As an inspired apostle of Christ, he was compelled to write these things. John is relating an incident concerning the Lord's soon departure. John himself is present (John 14).
The Lord is about to leave those very disciples right there with Him. THEY have spent years with Him, learning from Him, talking with Him, living with Him--THEY love Him beyond words. Now He is to leave THEM. THEIR hearts were troubled in a way no other disciples' hearts have ever been troubled. It was from these disciples and from these disciples alone that Jesus departed. He has never departed from any other disciples in a similar way. THEIR situation was unique. Jesus' words were meant to first of all comfort THEM!
Let not YOUR hearts be troubled, Jesus told THEM. He was going to leave THEM, but He was going away to prepare a place for THEM, and He would come back for THEM to receive THEM unto Himself that where He was THEY would be also. That is the context and that is the audience. Has He not prepared a place for all believers as well? Of course! But He was to come back to only THOSE believers right there with Him. That was THEIR comfort. What comfort could Jesus' words to THEM have been if He still has not returned? He came to THEM; those who had died in Him were caught up together with those who were still alive at His coming.
All of this ties in with 1 Thessalonians 4. Considering closely the sitz im leben and the audience relevance here, we find that paul said "WE" who are alive and remain." He meant "we" in the commonly understood way all of us understand it when we use it. He meant himself and those to whom he was first of all writing--those very Thessalonians of his day. THEY would be caught up with the dead in Christ and meet the Lord in the air--whether physically or spiritually and whether we can "see" it or not, it happened!
Preterist
You havent diproven a thing i have posted, all you have done is shown how you reject the Truth..
You havent diproven a thing i have posted, all you have done is shown how you reject the Truth..
If I am rejecting truth, beloved57, use the passage to prove so, not your opinion. To whom was Jesus speaking? Why were His words especially significant to THEM? How can our hearts be troubled in the same way theirs were? Did WE actually walk with Jesus for 3 years? Did He actually tell us that He was leaving us? What comfort did Jesus' words bring them IF He has still not returned? What would His words have meant to THEM?
Clearly, in the CONTEXT, He was telling those very disciples that He was coming back to receive THEM unto Himself. Tell me how I am rejecting truth by the simple words of Jesus in this passage? Please, answer the questions honestly and without presumptions.
Beloved, one day Jesus will return for His church.
The people that say Jesus has already returned lie.
The people that say, "Oh you missed the return" lie.
case closed.
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