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Yes, but we still have Jesus' words lurking. "I NEVER knew you! Depart from me!" Now how do we turn that "plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face rejection into a UR where, when Jesus says, "I NEVER knew you, He really was saying, "I knew you" and when He says, "Depart from Me" He was really saying, "Come to me." I just cannot see it. If someone can work magic and turn a negative into a positive without a lot of smoke-and-mirrors obfuscation, I'm all ears.
The kingdom of heaven appears in two stages, as i understand it. Now it is with us in the spirit. By the indwelling of the spirit of Christ. Now it is invisible ... We are like ambassadors of the kingdom of heaven as believers representing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ. We are the bride of Christ as well, the believers who do his will. When Christ returns, the Kingdom will become visible, and appear from heaven as a bride adorned for her groom, that is the new city of Jerusalem. God will be with men in Christ and through his bride. At that time the nations will be judged ...
Now this is where we have to exegete from scripture all the things said concerning this time of judgment. I believe it to be the judgment of nations(Mat 25:32). All those left alive of the nations at the time Christ has captured the planet and all resistance has ceased he will begin his work of judging the nations and deciding who will be allowed to enter the actual new city of Jerusalem from among them. Christ will be healing the nations as well, and progressively restoring the planet and its inhabitants(Rev 22:2).
Those who are cast into outer darkness will not be allowed into the new city. They will be in outer darkness where there is still weeping and gnashing of teeth and will undergo correction pertaining to the age/ages. The people who survive the tribulation in those days will repopulate the earth with other generations of mortals who will live extended lives but will still experience suffering and death. Within the city there will be the bride of Christ, and the guests of the wedding(Mat 22:10) (those nations to whom Christ will say to them, enter into my rest, Rev 21:24) who have been changed into immortal and incorruptible physio-spiritual/meta-physical beings. We will rule with Christ as king priests at that time(Rev 2:26, Rev 3:12,Rev 20:6). Not everyone will be allowed into the New city. And not everyone in the new city will be the bride and reign with Christ.
Hbr 3:11, Hbr 4:3, Hbr 4:5 and Psa 95:11 talk about those who enter and those who do not enter Gods rest. God rested on the 7th day. In the seventh millennium wherein Christ rules, the day of the lord, humanity will rest in the Christ. The dragon will be bound(Rev 20:3) so temptation will be all but Gone. Sin will still exist, it will not be done away with yet and the dragon will be released for a short season after the thousand years are up(Rev 20:7-8,). The dragon will again deceive the nations and God will destroy the heavens and the earth at that time and create a new heavens and a new earth wherein there will be no more sin, death or any suffering when all thing are finally reconciled to God. Sometime between the thousand year reign and the creation of the new heavens and earth the rest of the dead will be purified/baptized/cast/judged by fire in the presence Christ and his angels and resurrected.
I'm a universalist alike, I just tried to answer the question
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And remember the burning bush that spoke to Moses, it was engulfed with flames yet never burned up.
interesting point:
Trees with bad fruit are burned (Matthew 7:19), and so are unfruitful vines (John 15:6) and useless weeds (Matthew 13:40). These figures are all employed to depict the fate of sinners at the final reckoning. They will be cast into "unquenchable fire." This is the Greek word asbestos which means "inextinguishable." It describes a fire which burns without interruption; it is an enduring fire which none can extinguish no matter how hard they might try. It is important to notice here, however, that it is the fire that Jesus describes as enduring, NOT that which is cast into it. To try and transfer the quality of endurance from the fire itself to that which is cast into it is completely unwarranted either grammatically, logically, or theologically.
That which is cast into the fire will BURN UP. This is the Greek word katakaio which means "to burn up; consume." It signifies to completely, utterly, totally destroy with fire. It is enlightening, in the context of this study, to note that this word is used in the LXX (Septuagint) in Exodus 3:2 where Moses beholds a burning bush --- "The bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was NOT consumed." This particular bush was preserved in the fire (what the traditionalists proclaim will happen with the wicked), yet Jesus disagrees with this doctrine. Jesus informs us that sinners will NOT be preserved in the fire (like the burning bush was), but rather will be "burned up" --- just the opposite of preservation. Thus, the view of final punishment promoted by many is actually in direct opposition to the teaching of Jesus Christ. Jesus says the wicked will NOT be preserved in the fire, the traditionalists say they WILL. Jesus says they will be consumed in the fire (unlike the burning bush), the traditionalists say just the opposite (that they will endure without being consumed, just as the bush). Whom will you believe? As for me and my family, we choose to believe JESUS.
Yes, but we still have Jesus' words lurking. "I NEVER knew you! Depart from me!" Now how do we turn that "plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face rejection into a UR where, when Jesus says, "I NEVER knew you, He really was saying, "I knew you" and when He says, "Depart from Me" He was really saying, "Come to me." I just cannot see it. If someone can work magic and turn a negative into a positive without a lot of smoke-and-mirrors obfuscation, I'm all ears.
Ok, I'll take you at your word.
It is a simple statement that you cannot fake your way into the kingdom, but nothing in that passage inherantly says that they will depart to an everlasting doom.
You can pick out that pasaage and go "see" "see", but then you have lost sight of contradicting the PLAIN AS DAY VERSE 1TIMOTHY2:4
So if your all about plain as day passages and not for long drawn out convoluted nonsense then you have just made the bible contradict itself.
The body we rise up out of the grave in is not like anything else we can point to in God's creation.
It does not follow the same rules as any other thing you can point to.
Such bodies are everlasting, they can never pass away
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The answer to my question, if you believe in an eternal burning hell, is that God prevents it by having created the realm in which such bodies exist. So, while a God in this fashion may be sovereign, it does not prevent him from being a monster.
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The saved pass to everlasting glory, the Lost to everlasting punishment.
God seeks the lost until he finds them. Your image of God may not, but the true God does.
The answer to my question, if you believe in an eternal burning hell, is that God prevents it by having created the realm in which such bodies exist. So, while a God in this fashion may be sovereign, it does not prevent him from being a monster.
God seeks the lost until he finds them. Your image of God may not, but the true God does.
I know for certain if any of my children had ever got lost , i would have sought them until i had found them .
Yet we are told God won't do this
What we get told is "God's thoughts are not our thoughts or His ways are not our ways".
WAKE UP CHRISTIANITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The body we rise up out of the grave in is not like anything else we can point to in God's creation.
It does not follow the same rules as any other thing you can point to.
Such bodies are everlasting, they can never pass away.
The saved pass to everlasting glory, the Lost to everlasting punishment.
What you are saying is that sin is immortalised, and the works of the devil are not defeated.
In these verses what is in the first part of each verse is of the flesh which we inherit from Adam and the last part is what we inherit through Christ
Sown in Death/sin/corruption resurrection is about spirit and life - not immotalised sin/death/corruption
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
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