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Hebrews 6
Talk on the foundation teaching with baptism.
Baptism of repentance that Paul mention with John in Acts 19.
Baptism of the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit--Acts 19 was talking about this too with speaking in tongues.
Baptism in water in Matthew 3 with Jesus saying it fulfil all righteousness.
Epistle written by Peter on water baptism for an answer of a clear conscience with God.
These 3 the foundation teaching on baptism as a new convert--Hebrews 6.
John 3:5 saying water is water and spirit is spirit.
Jesus the one told him it's the way to fulfil all righteousness--Matthew 3.
Can't be mistaken if the master teacher told you that .
You right there's places in the bible saying the word of God is spiritual water for us.
Places in the bible too saying the word of God is spiritual bread, spiritual drink and spiritual meat for the soul of man.
It's a sure thing to say that literal water and spiritual water is taught about in the bible.
Literal by Matthew, Mark and John and yes Peter.
Spiritual by Peter, John and Paul as well.
Literal refering to baptism.
Spiritual referring to the bible or the spirit of God and the gift of the spirit of God with speaking in tongues.
Water defined in various bible definitions in the bible.
Just like the bible defined in various bible definitions as the bread, drink and manna from heaven.
The natural drink and bread bible defined as the spiritual body of Christ to reference in memory of him.
Yes various bible definitions given to the same words in the bible.
That's the bottom line to bring out now.
Knowing what's literal and spiritual in meaning is your issue with baptism.
You got to work in harmony with Hebrews 6 if grace is not in vain with you.
Paul saying that not man in the flesh.
If that's a tug a war effort too much for you Paul then talking in Titus 3:10 too.
]Actually, John 3:5 is not referring to water baptism.
John 3:5 "...Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."
This is not talking about water baptism. Jesus was talking to a pharisee to whom water had three spiritual conotations. To a pharisee water could mean salvation, Isa 55:1; it could mean the water of the Word, Eph 5:26; or it could mean the water of the Holy Spirit. John 7:38-39.
Water in John 3:5 is a reference to the Gospel message. 1 Peter 1:23;
Eph 5:26; Titus 3:5.
In other words, Jesus was telling Nicodemus, that he,(and everyone else) must hear and respond to the Gospel in order to be saved.
John 3:6 says " That which is born of the flesh is flesh (physical birth), and that which is born of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is spirit (the human spirit)".
When a person believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, God the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit and imputes it to the body of the new believer. God the Father then imputes His very own righteousness and His eternal life to the human spirit and then pronounces us justified. As a result, we are qualified to enter into an eternal relationship with Him. This is called being born again. The theological term is regeneration.
Water baptism was never a requirement for salvation. When John the Baptist performed water baptism, and when the early Church performed water baptism, it was on people who had already been saved.
Water baptism was a ritual identification, performed as a testimony to a persons faith.
In contrast to water baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a real identification in which, at the point of salvation, God the Holy Spirit places each believer into union with Jesus Christ. Acts 1:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13;
Romans 6:3,4; Colossians 2:12; Ephesians 4:5.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit only occurrs during our present dispensation, the Church Age. By virtue of having been placed into union with Christ we share all that he is and has. That is, we share his eternal life, his perfect righteousness, his sonship, his heirship, his eternal destiny, his priesthood, his ambassitorship.
This is why we are called Christian. Because we are in Christ.[/quote]
Actually, John 3:5 is not referring to water baptism.
John 3:5 "...Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."
This is not talking about water baptism. Jesus was talking to a pharisee to whom water had three spiritual conotations. To a pharisee water could mean salvation, Isa 55:1; it could mean the water of the Word, Eph 5:26; or it could mean the water of the Holy Spirit. John 7:38-39.
Water in John 3:5 is a reference to the Gospel message. 1 Peter 1:23;
Eph 5:26; Titus 3:5.
In other words, Jesus was telling Nicodemus, that he,(and everyone else) must hear and respond to the Gospel in order to be saved.
John 3:6 says " That which is born of the flesh is flesh (physical birth), and that which is born of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is spirit (the human spirit)".
When a person believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, God the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit and imputes it to the body of the new believer. God the Father then imputes His very own righteousness and His eternal life to the human spirit and then pronounces us justified. As a result, we are qualified to enter into an eternal relationship with Him. This is called being born again. The theological term is regeneration.
Water baptism was never a requirement for salvation. When John the Baptist performed water baptism, and when the early Church performed water baptism, it was on people who had already been saved.
Water baptism was a ritual identification, performed as a testimony to a persons faith.
In contrast to water baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a real identification in which, at the point of salvation, God the Holy Spirit places each believer into union with Jesus Christ. Acts 1:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13;
Romans 6:3,4; Colossians 2:12; Ephesians 4:5.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit only occurrs during our present dispensation, the Church Age. By virtue of having been placed into union with Christ we share all that he is and has. That is, we share his eternal life, his perfect righteousness, his sonship, his heirship, his eternal destiny, his priesthood, his ambassitorship.
This is why we are called Christian. Because we are in Christ.
Your view on John 3:5 is actually a heretical view and clearly not orthodox.
"Born again " The Bible way The only biblical use of the term “born again” occurs in John 3:3-5 — although, as we shall see, similar and related expressions such as “new birth” and ,regeneration” occur elsewhere in Scripture (Titus 3:5; 1 Pet 1:3, 23). In John 3:3, Jesus tells Nicodemus, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” The Greek expression translated “born again” (gennathei anothen) also means “born from above.” Jesus, it seems, makes a play on words with Nicodemus, contrasting earthly life, or what theologians would later dub natural life (“what is born of flesh”), with the new life of heaven, or what they would later call supernatural life (“what is born of Spirit”). Nicodemus' reply: “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” (John 3:4). Does he simply mistake Jesus to be speaking literally or is Nicodemus himself answering figuratively, meaning, “How can an old man learn new ways as if he were a child again?” We cannot say for sure, but in any case Jesus answers, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be born again.”' (John 3:5-7). Here Jesus equates “born again” or “born from above” with “born of water and the Spirit.” If, as the Catholic Church has always held, being “born of water and the Spirit” refers to baptism, then it follows that being “born again” or “born from above” means being baptized. Clearly, the context implies that born of “water and the Spirit” refers to baptism. The Evangelist tells us that immediately after talking with Nicodemus, Jesus took his disciples into the wilderness where they baptized people (John 3:22). Furthermore, water is closely linked to the Spirit throughout John's Gospel (for instance, in Jesus' encounter with the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4:9-13) and in the Johannine tradition (cf. 1 John 5:7). It seems reasonable, then, to conclude that John the Evangelist understands Jesus' words about being “born again” and “born of water and the Spirit” to have a sacramental, baptismal meaning."
"Born again " The Bible way The only biblical use of the term “born again” occurs in John 3:3-5 — although, as we shall see, similar and related expressions such as “new birth” and ,regeneration” occur elsewhere in Scripture (Titus 3:5; 1 Pet 1:3, 23). In John 3:3, Jesus tells Nicodemus, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” The Greek expression translated “born again” (gennathei anothen) also means “born from above.” Jesus, it seems, makes a play on words with Nicodemus, contrasting earthly life, or what theologians would later dub natural life (“what is born of flesh”), with the new life of heaven, or what they would later call supernatural life (“what is born of Spirit”). Nicodemus' reply: “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” (John 3:4). Does he simply mistake Jesus to be speaking literally or is Nicodemus himself answering figuratively, meaning, “How can an old man learn new ways as if he were a child again?” We cannot say for sure, but in any case Jesus answers, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be born again.”' (John 3:5-7). Here Jesus equates “born again” or “born from above” with “born of water and the Spirit.”
Nicodemus was being sarcastic since as a learned and legalistic pharisee he was astonished at what Jesus was saying to him.
All of the above agrees with what I said.
Quote:
If, as the Catholic Church has always held, being “born of water and the Spirit” refers to baptism, then it follows that being “born again” or “born from above” means being baptized.
The teachings of the Catholic Church are radically different from what the Bible teaches. Very little of what Roman Catholicism teaches is Biblically sound. They are incorrect in their teachings on this as well. John 3:5 is not talking about water baptism. It is a reference to the Gospel.
Quote:
Clearly, the context implies that born of “water and the Spirit” refers to baptism.
As I said, Jesus was talking to Nicodemus in a way that would be clear to a pharisee. Water had three different spiritual meanings to a pharisee.
1) To a pharisee water could mean salvation. Isa 55:1
2) To a pharisee water could mean the water of the Word. Eph5:26
3) To a pharisee water could mean the water of the Holy Spirit. John 7:38,39
And I then referenced John 3:5 with 1 Peter 1:23; Eph 5:26; and Titus 3:5 which shows that John 3:5 is a reference to the Gospel.
Jesus chose His words to Nicodemus carefully so that he knew exactly what Jesus was talking about from the standpoint of a religious pharisee who was well acquainted the Scriptures.
Quote:
The Evangelist tells us that immediately after talking with Nicodemus, Jesus took his disciples into the wilderness where they baptized people (John 3:22).
Yes. Water baptism was a ritual and a testimony undergone by those who had already been saved. It had nothing to do with what Jesus had told Nicodemus. It was a public testimony of their having believed in Christ.
Quote:
Furthermore, water is closely linked to the Spirit throughout John's Gospel (for instance, in Jesus' encounter with the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4:9-13) and in the Johannine tradition (cf. 1 John 5:7). It seems reasonable, then, to conclude that John the Evangelist understands Jesus' words about being “born again” and “born of water and the Spirit” to have a sacramental, baptismal meaning."
As stated already, water had three different spiritual meanings. One of which is, water is related to the Holy Spirit.
To understand the correct Biblical view, one must rightly divide the Word of Truth.
And, well, there it is. Agree or disagree. I realize it's a touchy subject.
I'd say if a person lives a life of sin, then he is not a child of God.
He can go to church every time the doors are open and seemingly do all the right things but if his lifestyle is sinful, I'd question his salvation.
JV McGee said we can be fruit inspectors.
I can't see his heart. Neither can I see what he does behind closed doors. So I can't judge his heart but I can judge the fruit his actions bear.
The teachings of the Catholic Church are radically different from what the Bible teaches. Very little of what Roman Catholicism teaches is Biblically sound. They are incorrect in their teachings on this as well. John 3:5 is not talking about water baptism. It is a reference to the Gospel.
How could the organization that put together the Bible in the late 4th century be radically different from what the Bible teaches. To be included in the New Testament, it had to be found to be an authentic writing of an Apostle or one of their disciples, was regarding the devinely inspired teachings of Jesus Christ and finally had to agree with the traditions of the Catholic Church including all doctrines and orthodox teachings. You, my protestant brother, lack the authority which was given to Peter and handed down through the ages by Apostoloc Succession. (Matthew 16:13-19) The early Church Fathers understood that Baptism was a required sacrament. Why would Jesus come back on Pentecost and almost immediately tell his disciples to do TWO things. Spread the Word to the corners of the world AND baptize in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. It had to be pretty important, don't you think? The Early Church Fathers walked with the Apostles themselves. Do you really think you know more of what Jesus actually meant 2000 years later than the folks that actually walked and were taught by the Apostles and disciples of the Apostles? You need to be more humble and pray that God will give you an open heart to accept truth no matter where it takes you. I suggest you study the Early Church Fathers and see what they believed. Then you might get an idea of who has the Authority to make the call on matters of faith that are so incredibly vital. For your sake, do the research. And don't ask your preacher, because he is just protecting his job. Go search the truth on your own.
How could the organization that put together the Bible in the late 4th century be radically different from what the Bible teaches. To be included in the New Testament, it had to be found to be an authentic writing of an Apostle or one of their disciples, was regarding the devinely inspired teachings of Jesus Christ and finally had to agree with the traditions of the Catholic Church including all doctrines and orthodox teachings. You, my protestant brother, lack the authority which was given to Peter and handed down through the ages by Apostoloc Succession. (Matthew 16:13-19) The early Church Fathers understood that Baptism was a required sacrament. Why would Jesus come back on Pentecost and almost immediately tell his disciples to do TWO things. Spread the Word to the corners of the world AND baptize in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. It had to be pretty important, don't you think? The Early Church Fathers walked with the Apostles themselves. Do you really think you know more of what Jesus actually meant 2000 years later than the folks that actually walked and were taught by the Apostles and disciples of the Apostles? You need to be more humble and pray that God will give you an open heart to accept truth no matter where it takes you. I suggest you study the Early Church Fathers and see what they believed. Then you might get an idea of who has the Authority to make the call on matters of faith that are so incredibly vital. For your sake, do the research. And don't ask your preacher, because he is just protecting his job. Go search the truth on your own.
to give just a few of the perversions and heresies of the Catholic Church:
The Pope represents himself as God's holy vicar on earth. There is no such thing. The highest authority in a church is that of a pastor in his own local church. There are no more apostles. And Peter was not a pope.
The daily mass that the Catholic Church holds, recrucifies Christ and is blasphemous. Christ died once for all and His work was complete.
1 Peter 3:18
The Lord's supper is to be done in remembrance of our Lord. But the Catholic Church believes that the wafer and the wine turns into the actual blood and body of Christ.
The Catholic Church says Mary is a co-redemptress with Christ. But
1 Timothy 2:5 say's 'For there is one God and one mediator between God and men. The man Christ Jesus who gave Himself as a ransom for all...
The Catholic Church says Mary was a perpetual virgin. The Bible says she was a virgin only until she gave birth to Jesus. Jesus had four half brothers and at least two sisters. They weren't cousins, they were literal and immediate family.
The Catholic Church takes it upon itself to promote certain people to sainthood. The Bible makes it clear that every believer is a saint. a saint is simply someone who is set apart unto God.
The Catholic Church offers prayer to Mary, and to saints(which it promoted to sainthood contrary to the Bible). The Bible says that prayer is offered to God the Father in the power of the Holy Spirit, and in the name of the Son.
The Catholic Church believes in the celebacy of the priesthood. But many of the apostles were married. The Bible mentions Peter as being married, the early church writings suggest all of them were married except John.
The Catholic Church exalts Mary as the 'Mother of God'. A blasphemous idea. Mary was the mother of the humanity of Jesus.
The Catholic Church says you must confess your sins to a priest. The Bible says every believer is a priest and as such, names his sins directly to God the Father. 1 John 1:9.
The Catholic Church holds its traditions above the authority of the Bible.
The Catholic Church says you can't know that you are saved for sure, but the Bible says that you can. 1 John 5:13.
The list goes on and on.
The Roman Catholic Church is apostate and seems to be the Mother of Harlots spoken of in Revelation 17.
I urge those who are caught up in the Catholic Church to do some honest research and re evaluate their beliefs.
As for water baptism, I've already explained it in my previous post. It was done by those who were previously saved. It was a testimony.
Think about it. The thief on the cross next to Christ ask Jesus to remember him when He came into His Kingdom, and Jesus said to him, "today you will be with me in paradise". The thief had no opportunity to be baptized. And someone on a plane that is about to crash decides to believe in Christ for salvation. He has no chance to be water baptized but he is saved.
The purpose of water baptism has been perverted by the church down through history.
to give just a few of the perversions and heresies of the Catholic Church:
The Pope represents himself as God's holy vicar on earth. There is no such thing. The highest authority in a church is that of a pastor in his own local church. There are no more apostles. And Peter was not a pope.
The daily mass that the Catholic Church holds, recrucifies Christ and is blasphemous. Christ died once for all and His work was complete.
1 Peter 3:18
The Lord's supper is to be done in remembrance of our Lord. But the Catholic Church believes that the wafer and the wine turns into the actual blood and body of Christ.
The Catholic Church says Mary is a co-redemptress with Christ. But
1 Timothy 2:5 say's 'For there is one God and one mediator between God and men. The man Christ Jesus who gave Himself as a ransom for all...
The Catholic Church says Mary was a perpetual virgin. The Bible says she was a virgin only until she gave birth to Jesus. Jesus had four half brothers and at least two sisters. They weren't cousins, they were literal and immediate family.
The Catholic Church takes it upon itself to promote certain people to sainthood. The Bible makes it clear that every believer is a saint. a saint is simply someone who is set apart unto God.
The Catholic Church offers prayer to Mary, and to saints(which it promoted to sainthood contrary to the Bible). The Bible says that prayer is offered to God the Father in the power of the Holy Spirit, and in the name of the Son.
The Catholic Church believes in the celebacy of the priesthood. But many of the apostles were married. The Bible mentions Peter as being married, the early church writings suggest all of them were married except John.
The Catholic Church exalts Mary as the 'Mother of God'. A blasphemous idea. Mary was the mother of the humanity of Jesus.
The Catholic Church says you must confess your sins to a priest. The Bible says every believer is a priest and as such, names his sins directly to God the Father. 1 John 1:9.
The Catholic Church holds its traditions above the authority of the Bible.
The Catholic Church says you can't know that you are saved for sure, but the Bible says that you can. 1 John 5:13.
The list goes on and on.
The Roman Catholic Church is apostate and seems to be the Mother of Harlots spoken of in Revelation 17.
I urge those who are caught up in the Catholic Church to do some honest research and re evaluate their beliefs.
As for water baptism, I've already explained it in my previous post. It was done by those who were previously saved. It was a testimony.
Think about it. The thief on the cross next to Christ ask Jesus to remember him when He came into His Kingdom, and Jesus said to him, "today you will be with me in paradise". The thief had no opportunity to be baptized. And someone on a plane that is about to crash decides to believe in Christ for salvation. He has no chance to be water baptized but he is saved.
The purpose of water baptism has been perverted by the church down through history.
I appreciate you taking the time to write such a long list of twisted truths and falsehoods. It's been done on this board thousands of times always by people who got their education of Catholicism from a protestant, or should I say, an anti-Catholic protestant. I suggest again if you really want to know what the Catholic Church believes and why, do your own research by reading books on the Early Church Fathers and asking a priest that is local to your area. I mean, if you needed open heart surgery, which you clearly need, you wouldn't call the plumber on how to do it. Pray, read, and ask questions and the holy spirit will do it's work. It always does.
Not on a permanent long basis arrangement. Remember you get the hidden acts hey.
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