Healthcare reform from a "right wing" Christian (hell, church, believe)

[Fundamentalist]

I don't even know what that is.

To be honest. I don't really have a position YET on the healthcare issue. This is not a black and white issue as some on both sides make it to be. On one side they use scare tactics such as calling it socialism, unamerican, that we are slowly but surely watching big brother emerge as the liberals are moving us into the wrong direction of communism yet on the other side we hear Obama's peopel playing the "loving card" that if we are loving we would adopt this reform even having liberal christians using a faith movement to push it, "that it is the Christian thing to do" and that Jesus would approve because he helped the down trodden. I might add that they are using the same tactic (faith movement) that they once highly criticized the Bush administration and the Christians who helped him for using. I believe it went something like this, politics and Christianity don't belong together, that they will hate us Christians if we become too political. I smell hypocrisy yet again.

As a Christian I am torn there is a part of me that would love health care for everyone including the illegal immigrants because I am a Christian and my heart goes out to everyone. I am commanded to love my neighbor BUT I have personally worked with the government and I have seen the ineptness time and time again and I have to be honest that knowing that they may run health care scares the ---- out of me!

I leave it up to God's will, if it passes then I know it is of God's will and I say glory to God.

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

I leave it up to God's will, if it passes then I know it is of God's will and I say glory to God.

I agree - people ask me if I really think this is the right thing to do - socialism and all - and I can only say that I'm not a big fan of it but...

...things simply can't stay as they are. There is corruption aplenty in the pharmaceutical industry (like everywhere else), and we are so devoted to business in this country that we have built the American lifestyle on the altar of greed - and to remove it would topple the financial system and ruin lives.

We're headed for a correction, I can only hope God is merciful in His dealings once again.

[HotinAZ]

Well, I for one am not in favor of anything sociialistic in nature. Not that it has to do, anything, with being a Christian, but more having to do with being a father and husband. Why do I say this? Debt. We cannot handle the immense load this is going to put on us, period. Trillions more, and we cannot pay off what we already owe, which is also tens of trillions.

How to fix the medical industry? Take all the lawyers out in the middle of the ocean...and well, you know the rest. They had the ability to fix this years and years ago, but most of the law makers themselves are lawyers.

So, yea. My daughter was born into a system owing her government over $33,000. Debt from birth. She also was required to have a social security card before she could leave the hospital, which registers her with the governmental state as a future wage earner. So how does this not sound like slavery? How does one being born, in debt, not qualify as slavery?

When will the American people wake the heck up? Doctors are not the problem. Pharma drug companies are not the problem, as they sell their goods to other countries at over 75% off the American prices. So then, what is the problem? Insurance? No! Then what? Could it be the lawyers, suing doctors over the most trivial of suits, making the costs of malpractice insurance go through the roof? Maybe? So do we trash the whole system, designed to keep us free, to implement a system of control? To remove competition, and force people to get government insurance? Why? What purpose does this serve? Who's agenda?

There are tons of natural remedies which a person can take to eliminate the expensive doctor visits. Personally, I use collodial silver EVERYTIME I start to get sick. Gone in days, where as most medicines only make us feel better, but don't kill the problems.

Paul tells us in Romans to owe no man nothing. NOTHING! What does this say about Christians living in America who enslave our children's children, using their money they have yet to earn, to pay for our ignorance now? This shames me to no end, but I am one voice, crying in this wilderness.

Rom 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Any Christian doctors around? Any Christian patients? Want to fix this crisis, return to the faith. Otherwise, the atheists and socialist nuts will take complete control!

[DaniMae1]

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

Well, I for one am not in favor of anything sociialistic in nature. Not that it has to do, anything, with being a Christian, but more having to do with being a father and husband. Why do I say this? Debt. We cannot handle the immense load this is going to put on us, period. Trillions more, and we cannot pay off what we already owe, which is also tens of trillions.

How to fix the medical industry? Take all the lawyers out in the middle of the ocean...and well, you know the rest. They had the ability to fix this years and years ago, but most of the law makers themselves are lawyers.

So, yea. My daughter was born into a system owing her government over $33,000. Debt from birth. She also was required to have a social security card before she could leave the hospital, which registers her with the governmental state as a future wage earner. So how does this not sound like slavery? How does one being born, in debt, not qualify as slavery?

When will the American people wake the heck up? Doctors are not the problem. Pharma drug companies are not the problem, as they sell their goods to other countries at over 75% off the American prices. So then, what is the problem? Insurance? No! Then what? Could it be the lawyers, suing doctors over the most trivial of suits, making the costs of malpractice insurance go through the roof? Maybe? So do we trash the whole system, designed to keep us free, to implement a system of control? To remove competition, and force people to get government insurance? Why? What purpose does this serve? Who's agenda?

There are tons of natural remedies which a person can take to eliminate the expensive doctor visits. Personally, I use collodial silver EVERYTIME I start to get sick. Gone in days, where as most medicines only make us feel better, but don't kill the problems.

Paul tells us in Romans to owe no man nothing. NOTHING! What does this say about Christians living in America who enslave our children's children, using their money they have yet to earn, to pay for our ignorance now? This shames me to no end, but I am one voice, crying in this wilderness.

Rom 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Any Christian doctors around? Any Christian patients? Want to fix this crisis, return to the faith. Otherwise, the atheists and socialist nuts will take complete control!

I take offense to that. There an awful lot of Christians who are in favor of this. I am not a Christian and I am not totally in favor of it! Atheists are less than 10% of the population. How can they take control?!

[alanMolstad]

I think that health care reform is on it's last legs.
I see Obama just going though the motions now, all his speeches and everything is just to try to save face at this point.

I also see the catholic church beginning to flex it's power.
The threat to close many if not all the catholic hospitals hits many catholics hard, and this has been behind many of the protests at the town halls that have turned the tide in this battle.

Right now I give the health Care reform movement about a 25% chance of passing anything.
and remember, you cant blame the republicans for any of this as the Dems in congress have the numbers to pass anything thing they want.
The pressure seems to be coming from a grassroots effort alone.

[alanMolstad]

I think that on Sept 9th when Obama speaks that if he drops the Public option that most of his support in congress will dry up.

There is little point to any health care reform in their minds if millions of people will still be left with no federal health care bill.

I also think Obama may drop his willingness to pass on a federal right to abortion protections.
He he does that in an effort to gain support, he may get it from the Catholic church (Because of the attack the Abortion Rights Law would have on the Catholic hospitals) , but will notice more and more liberals walking away from the table.

[bigthirsty]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

I smell hypocrisy yet again.

Rich.. its hypocritical when right wing Christians are questioned on their faith as it relates to politics.. when thats what they quoted was their decision making process on previous issues..

"I use my faith on this issue.. but on this other one that might cost money.. not so much"

Rich indeed! You are most correct though.. I smell hypocrisy.. big time.

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

As a Christian I am torn there is a part of me that would love health care for everyone including the illegal immigrants because I am a Christian and my heart goes out to everyone.

Actually I prefer not to pay for illegal immigrants healthcare.. Good thing is healthcare reform won't pay for illegal immigrants healthcare.. so its a non-issue for me..

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

I have to be honest that knowing that they may run health care scares the ---- out of me!

And if healthcare reform was about the govt running healthcare.. I'd be scared too. Good thing it isn't about govt running healthcare. Good thing its about Govt regulating an insurance exchange and modifying current law to address insurance pools.. good thing the only "govt run healthcare" would be a "public option" which would be one of many options American citizens could buy into for their health insurance needs..

[bigthirsty]

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

How to fix the medical industry? Take all the lawyers out in the middle of the ocean...and well, you know the rest.

Yes.. every medical lawsuit is frivolous.. and the best way to fix healthcare is to kill lawyers..

I'm suprised that bill hasn't come up yet. Very Christian of you though!! Yippie for drowning people! Whee

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

They had the ability to fix this years and years ago, but most of the law makers themselves are lawyers.

Yes its odd that those that make the law are familiar with the law and how law works.

No what else is odd... those that build bridges have an engineering background.. weird.

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

So, yea. My daughter was born into a system owing her government over $33,000. Debt from birth.

Hell if you look at the benefit from a military standpoint alone.. that seems pretty cheap. The govt protects her from WMD's for $33k! That is a steal.

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

When will the American people wake the heck up? Doctors are not the problem. Pharma drug companies are not the problem, as they sell their goods to other countries at over 75% off the American prices. So then, what is the problem? Insurance? No! Then what?

NASA.. Well actually not really NASA's fault.. but it stems from NASA.

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

Could it be the lawyers, suing doctors over the most trivial of suits, making the costs of malpractice insurance go through the roof?

Its a cost.. but nowhere near a driver.. not even close..

In 2007.. MedMal costs were about $30.4 Billion..

We have a $2 Trillion healthcare system. Trillion..

So MedMal accounts for all of.. drum roll..... badabadabadabada.. about 1.5% of the cost of the healthcare system.

You don't reform 1.5% at a federal level.. states reform 1.5%..

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

To remove competition, and force people to get government insurance?

Totally agree.. we shouldn't remove competition and go to a single payer system.. good thing that isn't even on the table..

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

There are tons of natural remedies which a person can take to eliminate the expensive doctor visits.

If what you are saying (God I hope this is what you are saying).. if what you are saying is utilization needs to be managed.. then yes I agree.. Presenting at the ER with a cold.. not good. I prescribe some jack daniels and honey. Its cheaper and makes ya feel good.

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

Personally, I use collodial silver EVERYTIME I start to get sick. Gone in days, where as most medicines only make us feel better, but don't kill the problems.

What? Medicine only make us feel better but don't kill the problem? That is a very over-reaching statement.

1. Antibiotics kill the problem..
2. If its a virus.. there is nothing you can do but let it run its course.. which is generally.. a few days..

~sidenote~ there is no medical literature anywhere that shows collodial silver works ~end sidenote~

But I do agree with you (if this is what you are saying) that the system will have to eventually move from a Healthcare Industry (managing sick) to a Wellness Industry (cutting down on people getting sick).

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by bigthirsty

Yes.. every medical lawsuit is frivolous.. and the best way to fix healthcare is to kill lawyers..

I'm suprised that bill hasn't come up yet. Very Christian of you though!! Yippie for drowning people! Whee

It was a joke. Maybe you need that drink of Jack now?

Yes its odd that those that make the law are familiar with the law and how law works.

The Law? It is called the constitution, which my 9 year old can read. The rest of the bullcrap? It is called control, which you seem to love.

No what else is odd... those that build bridges have an engineering background.. weird.

No what else is odd? Dry humor.

Hell if you look at the benefit from a military standpoint alone.. that seems pretty cheap. The govt protects her from WMD's for $33k! That is a steal.

Yea. It is like paying for the chains they enslave you with. You scared of the bomb still? Scared of the middle eastern boogie man still? Wow, I think you really need to wake up. My daughter would not have pay for protection from WMD's if the government would not have sold the blueprints for them to the enemy. Funny how they all were built about the same time.

NASA.. Well actually not really NASA's fault.. but it stems from NASA.

Yea, we went to the moon, once upon a time. Big rock.

Its a cost.. but nowhere near a driver.. not even close..

In 2007.. MedMal costs were about $30.4 Billion..

We have a $2 Trillion healthcare system. Trillion..

So MedMal accounts for all of.. drum roll..... badabadabadabada.. about 1.5% of the cost of the healthcare system.

You don't reform 1.5% at a federal level.. states reform 1.5%..

Here is an orignal idea. Let's keep the damn government OUT of our lives. You want more government, move to D.C. There they have exclusive control over you.

Totally agree.. we shouldn't remove competition and go to a single payer system.. good thing that isn't even on the table..

No, but that is exactly what Obama is moving towards, unless you don't read or listen much. Baby steps is what they are after now. Unless you don't know your history very well.

If what you are saying (God I hope this is what you are saying).. if what you are saying is utilization needs to be managed.. then yes I agree.. Presenting at the ER with a cold.. not good. I prescribe some jack daniels and honey. Its cheaper and makes ya feel good.

Since I do not drink, then not a good idea.

What? Medicine only make us feel better but don't kill the problem? That is a very over-reaching statement.

1. Antibiotics kill the problem..
2. If its a virus.. there is nothing you can do but let it run its course.. which is generally.. a few days..

~sidenote~ there is no medical literature anywhere that shows collodial silver works ~end sidenote~

Ever seen a virus attacked by collodial siver? Interesting, so your logic on #2 is false.

But I do agree with you (if this is what you are saying) that the system will have to eventually move from a Healthcare Industry (managing sick) to a Wellness Industry (cutting down on people getting sick).

Yea, and if people choose to get sick by their unhealthy practices, then let them suffer that fate. I would not want you to pay for mine, and I sure as hell don't want to pay for yours. Start with that basic premise, and let us go from there.

[twin.spin]

socialist's\democrate's answer to every problem...Goverment is the sow, get yours for free.