Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If I was an unbeliever reading this thread, I would run from Christianity.
Christians are sometimes the worst "advertizement" for Christianity. Although in fairness many of the best Christians are people who wouldn't be spending much or any time here. They're off building wheelchairs for poor people and feeding the hungry or just raising a family and doing right by their neighbor.
If I was an unbeliever reading this thread, I would run from Christianity.
Fortunately Mike has been around long enough by now that almost everyone should be aware that his unconventional style of communicating, and his unusual dogmatic beliefs are very far away from representing the "love your neighbor as yourself" lifestyle teachings of Jesus Christ, and the way most of his sincere humble followers try their best to be.
Fortunately Mike has been around long enough by now that almost everyone should be aware that his unconventional style of communicating, and his unusual dogmatic beliefs are very far away from representing the "love your neighbor as yourself" lifestyle teachings of Jesus Christ, and the way most of his sincere humble followers try their best to be.
Mike shouldn't be singled out, have you read the other posts and responses other people are giving to eachother?????? In the last few days I've seen alot of sarcasam and much more.
Discussing our fait and convictions is a very passionate, emotional subject that evokes the best in us, and sometimes the worse in us. That includes myself.
Mike shouldn't be singled out, have you read the other posts and responses other people are giving to eachother?????? In the last few days I've seen alot of sarcasam and much more.
Discussing our fait and convictions is a very passionate, emotional subject that evokes the best in us, and sometimes the worse in us. That includes myself.
Fair enough. I understand then that you think that Siamese, whose post I was responding to, was not specifically referring to Mike.
Until you understand that God will not permit His love to compromise His Holiness, it is you who will never understand God.
Until you understand that God holiness derives from his love, you will not understand the nature of God. There will be no compromise, there will only be redemption for all things. The wicked and unbelieving will be purified by fire, and will bow before Christ and will swear fealty to him. God is not like a mean, or a spoiled rotten child who is playing a game of uncle with his creation. When everyone swears allegiance to him, he will not cause them to be tortured for ever anyway. That may be something you would do ... You may think that is holy, but it isn't ... Its monstrous.
Quote:
Universal reconciliation is indeed true.(2 Cor. 5:18-19) But universal reconciliation is Not universal salvation.
Reconciliation means that the barrier between God and man has been removed by the work of Christ on the Cross in paying the penalty for sin and therefore propitiating or satisfying the demands of divine righteousness and therefore establishing peace between God and man. Christ paid the penalty for all sin that would ever be committed in the human race.
But where the barrier between God and man used to be, there is a volitional issue. Man must make a decision to step over the line where the barrier used to be. (Acts 16:31) ''Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved.''
In 2 Cor. 5:20 Both Paul and Timothy are saying; ''Therefore we are ambassodors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.'' Paul and Timothy were begging the Corinthians to be reconciled to God. Which means they were asking the Corinthians to believe in Christ so that reconciliation could be applied to them for salvation.
Christ purchased the freedom of every person who ever lived or will live. People aren't condemned because of their sins, because Christ purchased their freedom. That's what it's talking about when it says in (2 Peter 2:1) ''denying the Master who bought them.'' Their redemption was purchased on the Cross. Whether they're going to accept that redemption is another issue. Those who accept it are born again, those who don't are still lost.
Salvation in this life is to have aionios zoe, or life pertaining to the ages. We as believers receive salvation and will take part in the first resurrection. The unbelievers and the wicked will not have aionios life, or life pertaining to the ages, and will not take part in the first resurrection, but will only be saved through the fire ...
You definition of the word reconcile is not what the word apokatallassō actually means ...
1) to reconcile completely 2) to reconcile back again 3)bring back a former state of harmony
Your trying to rewrite history aren't you? A common religious practice ... Don't you wish you could just burn all the books that prove you wrong? The fact as i stated it is the vast majority of Christians in the first 5 centuries after Christ believed everyone would be saved at the fullness of times, some through faith, and the rest through purification by fire ... You're trying to twist that fact to put yourself in line with the early church only shows you to be disingenuous ... If you would study the earliest church father, you would find this to be the case ...
Quote:
The doctrine of eternal punishment, of eternal separation is a Biblical doctrine. It was not invented by man.
Wrong again Mike ... The unbelievers and the wicked are not separated from God in the lake of fire, but are in the presence of the lamb and in the presence of his angels (Rev 14:10) ... No where in the bible does it mention any part of mankind or even the fallen angels being for ever separated from God, that is you traditional fundamental and orthodox slant ... It is pure speculation and rhetoric, with absolutely no scriptural backing at all. And yes, eternal torture was invented by sick twisted degenerate men full of spiritual violence and extortion ...
Quote:
The abuses and crimes that have been committed in the name of God must be distinquished from what is taught in the Bible.
The crimes against humanity were done because of how the bible was twisted by men.
Quote:
God is truth. Satan is the father of lies. And we live in the devils world which is under his rule. And Satanic deception is rampant up to the point that God allows it to be. God permits this so that having been tested, those who have been tested will be either on God's side or on Satan's side.
All will bow before Christ and confess to the father and swear allegiance to him in the end. Even Satan and his fallen angels ...
Quote:
Salvation is applied only to those who make a decision to believe in Christ. This is the truth that universalism denies.Final answer.
Salvation is a free gift, it has nothing to do with us. All will be saved in the end. Those of us that believe now and receive salvation in this life are chosen by God, we did not choose him.
God is the savior of all men, especially those that believe ... That is the final answer ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-04-2009 at 04:26 PM..
Until you understand that God holiness derives from his love, you will not understand the nature of God. There will be no compromise, there will only be redemption for all things. The wicked and unbelieving will be purified by fire, and will bow before Christ and will swear fealty to him. God is not like a mean, or a spoiled rotten child who is playing a game of uncle with his creation. When everyone swears allegiance to him, he will not cause them to be tortured for ever anyway. That may be something you would do ... You may think that is holy, but it isn't ... Its monstrous.
Salvation in this life is to have aionios zoe, or life pertaining to the ages. We as believers receive salvation and will take part in the first resurrection. The unbelievers and the wicked will not have aionios life, or life pertaining to the ages, and will not take part in the first resurrection, but will only be saved through the fire ...
You definition of the word reconcile is not what the word apokatallassō actually means ...
1) to reconcile completely 2) to reconcile back again 3)bring back a former state of harmony
Your trying to rewrite history aren't you? A common religious practice ... Don't you wish you could just burn all the books that prove you wrong? The fact as i stated it is the vast majority of Christians in the first 5 centuries after Christ believed everyone would be saved at the fullness of times, some through faith, and the rest through purification by fire ... You're trying to twist that fact to put yourself in line with the early church only shows you to be disingenuous ... If you would study the earliest church father, you would find this to be the case ...
Wrong again Mike ... The unbelievers and the wicked are not separated from God in the lake of fire, but are in the presence of the lamb and in the presence of his angels (Rev 14:10) ... No where in the bible does it mention any part of mankind or even the fallen angels being for ever separated from God, that is you traditional fundamental and orthodox slant ... It is pure speculation and rhetoric, with absolutely no scriptural backing at all. And yes, eternal torture was invented by sick twisted degenerate men full of spiritual violence and extortion ...
The crimes against humanity were done because of how the bible was twisted by men.
All will bow before Christ and confess to the father and swear allegiance to him in the end. Even Satan and his fallen angels ...
Salvation is a free gift, it has nothing to do with us. All will be saved in the end. Those of us that believe now and receive salvation in this life are chosen by God, we did not choose him.
God is the savior of all men, especially those that believe ... That is the final answer ...
God's love and His Holiness are two different attributes of God. His Holiness does not stem from His love.
It seems that you are locked into your false beliefs and nothing is going to get through to you, and so there is no further point in trying as it is quite simply a waste of time.
God's love and His Holiness are two different attributes of God. His Holiness does not stem from His love.
It seems that you are locked into your false beliefs and nothing is going to get through to you, and so there is no further point in trying as it is quite simply a waste of time.
Yes, it is a waste of time ... The truth has set me free from the bondage of everlasting death and torture. I am not trying to convince you as i can see you are totally and completely brainwashed ... Only God can heal your soul sickness and reveal the truth of these things to you. I am merely here to point out the fallacious arguments which you present on this issue for the sake of others who might be reading these discussions. I, along with my brothers and sisters in the word or reconciliation, am just doing the great work or resurrecting the true gospel of Christ which has been hidden away and buried under lies for so many centuries by dishonest and greedy men who would dominate the minds and lives of the masses and prey on their naive devotion and trust. I pray the lord reveal this truth to you, but i can see you are not able to see beyond the stone wall which has been erected around your heart by the indoctrination that binds your soul to the torments of hell and everlasting death. I am confident he will heal you in due time ...
Selah ...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
