What are Christians saved from exactly? (Gospel, Kingdom, faith, spiritual)
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When you can finally see the absurdity of this statement, you might begin to understand God's love, why we were all subjected to vanity, and what it is we are actually saved from.
Peace out Fundy.
You do realize that is a self righteous statement The substitutionary atonement doctrine is one of the most beautiful, loving doctrines-It's all about Him not us
You do realize that is a self righteous statement The substitutionary atonement doctrine is one of the most beautiful, loving doctrines-It's all about Him not us
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist Christians are saved from God. When God looks at us He sees Jesus and when He sees Jesus He sees us.
I think what you meant to say is that our salvation comes from God.
You do realize that is a self righteous statement The substitutionary atonement doctrine is one of the most beautiful, loving doctrines-It's all about Him not us
Sorry Fundy, no self-righteousness intended, but when you say things like we are saved "as a byproduct of God's glory", it leads me to believe you don't fully understand God's love. LOVE ALWAYS PROTECTS. How do you think that impacts God's decision to save His creation?
You believe "Christians are saved from God" and this is simply the loving doctrine of substitutionary atonement? Like Mystic, its not about us, its about us needing Him.
Let me explain the absurdity of "Christians are saved from God." This would mean God created some people specifically so He would eternally torture them. In theory, God could torment the whole human race for eternity, and God would still be "loving". Maybe that is not an absurdity to you. If that's the case, I would just say read 1 Cor 13 a few hundred times and let it sink in.
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist Christians are saved from God. When God looks at us He sees Jesus and when He sees Jesus He sees us.
I think what you meant to say is that our salvation comes from God.
No. that God's wrath remains on us until we are covered by the blood of Christ because when we are then God can see us as righteous-so when God sees us He sees Christ and when He looks at Christ He sees us. Christ was our substitution, He stepped in our place.
No. that God's wrath remains on us until we are covered by the blood of Christ because when we are then God can see us as righteous-so when God sees us He sees Christ and when He looks at Christ He sees us. Christ was our substitution, He stepped in our place.
Only humans have wrath, anger, jealousy, pride, glory-seeking egos, lust, envy, greed . . . (read: the negative human emotions that have been shown to be the result of our human weaknesses) . . . to attribute ANY of them to God for ANY reason is to blaspheme God's Holy Spirit using ancient primitive misunderstanding developed under the veil of ignorance that covers the OT descriptons of Jehovah. A follower of Christ removes that veil and understands the TRUE NATURE of God is LOVE.
What kind of death does sin bring? Is it not spiritual death?
Both spiritual death and physical death as far as i understand. Corruption and decay are a byproduct of sin, not only in humans but in nature as a whole.
Saved from spiritual death-total separation from God. Jesus reconciled us back to God by taking all our sins against God and nailing them to the cross.He paid our debt to God with his blood, once and for all time so we could have a relationship with the Father. He gave us mercy and forgiveness for disobeying him, through Jesus only because it pleased God to save us, not because we do any deed to deserve it. And Jesus voluntarily laid his life down for us.He had the power to lay his life down and the power to raise it up again. The power of his resurrection proved we would live forever with him. Hell is a total separation from God, forever. God will never hear you and you will be tormented day and night forever for rejecting his love, which is unbelief of who he says he is.
Sin is death. Jesus freed us from sin. As you grow in Christ, the sin falls away, for Christ in you is the only power that can do this. When you are saved by grace through faith and recieve the forgiveness of your sins, you are a new creation in Christ. The old self passes away the more faith, (trust in God) you have and the new becomes more visible. Good fruit made by Christ. Now repentence to God is acknowledging the truth we have sinned and are very sorry for hurting and disobeying God. We are in his image and he also cries, hurts and angers when we do things that hurt ourselves and others and him. Hope this helps friend.
Now, this body is like a fading flower. Here today and gone tomorrow. Believing in Christ and what he has done for us, promises us a new spiritual body that will never decay. When we have faith in Jesus, we have passed from death to life. Immortality. For believers, death is only a shadow. The fate of both believers and non-believers is the same on earth. They die from this earth and the earthly body decays, but where their soul goes after the last breath is by their faith in Jesus or not. If a person believes in Jesus, then he believes in the Father who sent him and recieves what Jesus has. A new resurrected body that will last forever to live with God forever.
Kat, I think this is getting off topic, but we need to be careful here.
God doesn't change his mind. Circumstances may occur that make it appear that God changes his mind, but it is really man that is changing his mind. God knows all, the beginning from the end. Why would He need to change his mind since He already knows how its all going to work out?
Look at Jer 18:8 for example. God warns that if a nation doesn't repent, then He will inflict disaster on that nation. But if the nation does repent, then He will relent of the disaster He planned.
Is God really changing His mind in Jer 18:8? God already knows beginning to end, He knows what that nation will do, and He already knows what they will choose. God is simply giving a warning of what will happen if they don't repent. So the nation repents and the disaster does not happen.
Who really changed their mind here? The people changed their mind. God changes people's minds. NOT the other way around.
Lego,
I'm just catching up on the thread but I wanted to say that in the post you referenced, my point was that these verses point out that God is giving mankind choices, but also touching on the fact that most christians, I know, have a list of things that MIGHT send them to hell.
If you don't know the criteria specifically for being saved, and you think you are saved from eternal hell....that could be considered God changing his mind. It's open to interpretation.
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The substitutionary atonement doctrine is one of the most beautiful, loving doctrines-It's all about Him not us
