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I think the problem comes in with how an individual looks at Christian music and it's purpose. If an individual sees it as an expression which should always sonically and visually portray peace/love/joy etc - then they are going to have problems with hardcore metal and even deem it as evil (scowls and screams don't seem to portray a lot of love/peace/joy - right?)
Now that makes sense- and that's kind of what I was trying to explain in a manner of speaking...it's just that for me, as a musician myself as well as an audiophile and lover of pretty much ALL music genres and styles, what I hear as beautiful someone else might hear as total cacophony- but of course the operative word being hear, not see. And I take serious issue when a person's appearance is used to malign them (which it has been in previous posts) because while that IS part of the music when it comes to performance arts, it's more about the MUSIC itself and how it makes one feel when they close their eyes and listen. Me, I like very heavy, loud and sometimes abrasive and strange music because it makes me feel happy, at peace and- for example, one of my favorite bands Place of Skulls (who do happen to be christian) is beautiful, joyful and soothing to me- strange though it sounds. Conversely, an artist like Amy Grant or Celine Dion is like fingernails on a blackboard for me, and I feel unsettled and unnerved with those softer, "popular" styles of music. So if I were to be approaching this issue using my personal taste and agenda as a means to make a point as to why certain bands are not "of god"- just like I've seen others do- I could very well use their same argument against Amy Grant and be credible, no?! Of course I'm being facetious but I think you get my point.
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Originally Posted by firstborn888
That's why I say you have to look at this heavier stuff more as a sport. Like when Kobe or Lebron run aggressively down the court and slam dunk in someones face - it's not supposed to be 'pleasant' or loving or nice. It's supposed to be spectacular.
Same with football - whatever. So are these sports unchristian and evil? Well - they just are what they are. Afterwards the athletes generally hug and say 'good game' and sometimes even tell the interviewers "I thank God for the opportunity".
But again, to me- that heavy stuff IS pleasant, loving and nice! I can't think of it as, or compare it to a sport, it's just too important and present in my life to trivialize it like that.
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Originally Posted by little elmer
Good point - the main thing for me is that it's so similar to the stuff I came out of. I can change the words to Highway to Hell, but what I would think and feel while listening to it would just throw me back to Bon Scott, right? It's not so much what pulls us up to Him, but what would be pleasing to God - and that goes back to what you said: how much of our music today promotes peace/love/joy, and the rest of the fruits of the Spirit?
I think it's the talk like that, when you say phrases like "fruit of the spirit" and "pleasures of the flesh" that rub me the wrong way- I've never actually heard anyone say stuff like that outloud (or typed- you know what I mean!) and be serious so pardon me for being taken aback about it- I'll do my best to try to get used to it but for now I just don't get it...
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Originally Posted by little elmer
If the heavier stuff is just a "thing" (having no value other than sport), then what's the point? That's not exactly "pressing on to the high calling", it's just envoking God's name while we're fooling around (not good policy). A Christian is to follow Christ and His ways, not think that Christ will change His ways to accommodate him/her.
But that's just it- that "heavier stuff" you refer to is hardly just a "thing" or a sport for me- music is my lifesblood. I can easily say that music has helped me spiritually and otherwise and inspires me to be the best person I know how to be, every day. And to me, nothing that has brought me such light into my life when I've needed it most could possibly be anything but good- and of god. And just a point to ponder- any band who makes the decision to call themselves officially "Christian" is already subjecting themselves to pigeonholing themselves and possibly making themselves less viable to certain audiences, and as a musician myself and a person in the business I can tell you that such bands are definitely not just "fooling around". It may just appear that way because of their approach, but that doesn't make them any less genuine about their beliefs- if anything it says they understand them enough to be able to be a little more daring, creative and beat to their own drum (pun intended)- even if it means persecution- both from christians and non.
As a finishing note, I do have to say that I think some people see music, and much of our world only on the surface and as well, do the same thing with themselves and their lives; rather than looking inward and seeking answers and strength from within, there is a need to search externally and question and criticize things that don't fit into whatever "keyhole" one has crafted for oneself in their quest to find their "pefect" spirituality or religion or whatever. That is something I've worked hard to get away from doing myself- seeking power externally is a lot easier, but it's also pretty shallow and unrewarding. And my aforementioned statement is, I believe, what many of you think a good lot of the music out there is about- seeking power externally. Which is fine- if that applies to you. But it doesn't to me, and I hope I've been able to illustrate how- it ain't easy sometimes but clearly I enjoy the challenge!
Well, I`m going to throw my 2 pennies in and give my opinion. It`s just my opinion and nothing else. But noone will ever be able to convince me that heavy pounding,heavy metal,jumping around like a banshee with your head jerking all over the place, is of God. I can look and listen to that and tell that is not of a peaceful spirit. But, I realize it is not my opinion that matters to anyone else. That is between you and God.
A person can be taking an LSD trip and say they feel at peace and close to God while they are tripping. I think certain types of music can be like a drug of sorts. It can take your mind and feelings to another place. I just can`t see Jesus walking into a concert with that kind of music playing and see him jumping up and down,shaking his body, and thrashing his head back and forth while praising his Father. But again,this is just my opinion.
I am not saying that Jesus would be head banging or moshing either (not sure on that one but I would be interested in asking him sometime) but then again the scribes and pharisees couldn't understand why Jesus hung out with the tax collectors and sinners either. He did say it was the sick that needed the physician, right? If lil elmer is right in his thoughts about heavy metal (and I think he is off balance a bit) then maybe Jesus would be hanging out at metal concerts in order to love on those people and share the love of Christ (the gospel) with them in order for them to be healed... Just a thought
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Originally Posted by spm62
Well, I`m going to throw my 2 pennies in and give my opinion. It`s just my opinion and nothing else. But noone will ever be able to convince me that heavy pounding,heavy metal,jumping around like a banshee with your head jerking all over the place, is of God. I can look and listen to that and tell that is not of a peaceful spirit. But, I realize it is not my opinion that matters to anyone else. That is between you and God.
A person can be taking an LSD trip and say they feel at peace and close to God while they are tripping. I think certain types of music can be like a drug of sorts. It can take your mind and feelings to another place. I just can`t see Jesus walking into a concert with that kind of music playing and see him jumping up and down,shaking his body, and thrashing his head back and forth while praising his Father. But again,this is just my opinion.
helios666 - You made your point well, and I respect that. It appears that our concept and view of who God is may differ, and I'm not the judge. Again, good post.
I am not saying that Jesus would be head banging or moshing either (not sure on that one but I would be interested in asking him sometime) but then again the scribes and pharisees couldn't understand why Jesus hung out with the tax collectors and sinners either. He did say it was the sick that needed the physician, right? If lil elmer is right in his thoughts about heavy metal (and I think he is off balance a bit) then maybe Jesus would be hanging out at metal concerts in order to love on those people and share the love of Christ (the gospel) with them in order for them to be healed... Just a thought
When He walked among the sinners of His day, He didn't do what they did - He showed them a way out. Just a thought, too.
I was joking about the moshing comment...I don't see or believe that Jesus would have done those things, lol. But I do believe He would attend a Christian concert and lovingly witness to the lost or those in error. That was Jesus's character. He hated legalism and rebuked the Scribes and Pharissees many times along with the disciples. I think what the problem is with this thread is there are many christians who don't know Jesus very well, they don't study the Word and although they say they KNOW HIM they are only acquanted with Him or worse than that they may not KNOW HIM at all. I think we all need to get into the Word and let it speak to our hearts and ask God to reveal any sin or denial. I am talking about all of this. This thread is pathetic....very pathetic. and not a very good witness to the world who is watching, wondering and looking for hope.
If we are believers and brothers and sisters we are supposed to show that to the world by the love towards one another and personally I don't see that on many of these threads under the title of Christianity.. It really burdens my heart to read some of these posts and I pray that we would wake up and see what all of this is doing. The enemy is having an absolute hayday... We all need to stop the judgmentation and work on our own issues and start to live the life that we are called to live.
Thanks for sharing...
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Originally Posted by little elmer
When He walked among the sinners of His day, He didn't do what they did - He showed them a way out. Just a thought, too.
helios666 - You made your point well, and I respect that. It appears that our concept and view of who God is may differ, and I'm not the judge. Again, good post.
Thank you, little elmer. And yes, I would definitely say that our concept of god does differ! But having differences is what makes this forum, and this world the interesting place that it is.
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Originally Posted by spm62
I just can`t see Jesus walking into a concert with that kind of music playing and see him jumping up and down,shaking his body, and thrashing his head back and forth while praising his Father. But again,this is just my opinion.
Eh, I can't really see Jesus thrashing out at a metal show either, but a Grateful Dead show- now THAT is some music I could see him digging!
...and nobody said that he would do that. I don't do that at Christian concerts even though I attend them. Personally, if I were to enter a mosh pit I would wake up with a headache and sore body the next day. That is not something that appeals to me. I really don't agree with the moshing thing either. But then again I don't agree with many things that people do but that doesn't mean that I don't love those people that do those things.
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Originally Posted by helios666
Thank you, little elmer. And yes, I would definitely say that our concept of god does differ! But having differences is what makes this forum, and this world the interesting place that it is.
Eh, I can't really see Jesus thrashing out at a metal show either, but a Grateful Dead show- now THAT is some music I could see him digging!
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) and be serious so pardon me for being taken aback about it- I'll do my best to try to get used to it but for now I just don't get it...
He did say it was the sick that needed the physician, right? If lil elmer is right in his thoughts about heavy metal (and I think he is off balance a bit) then maybe Jesus would be hanging out at metal concerts in order to love on those people and share the love of Christ (the gospel) with them in order for them to be healed... Just a thought
and not a very good witness to the world who is watching, wondering and looking for hope.
But then again I don't agree with many things that people do but that doesn't mean that I don't love those people that do those things.
