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That's what they claim. Are you sure they're telling you the truth? Do they think they're telling you the truth but are mistaken? You and I cannot answer that because we cannot get inside their minds, which is why subjective claims don't mean a thing.
I can't say it happens that fast, but I'm convinced from scripture that it is a personal choice.
It isn't predetermined. It is a choice. Besides, neither your past experience nor mine prove anything one way or the other. What matters is what the objective text--Scripture--has to say. It is too clear that God views it as a sin, which means it comes from a choice.
Nobody, I suppose. But that is getting off-topic. I know I don't choose to discriminate against them, threaten them, kill or beat them. But that doesn't prove that they're born that way.
So what your saying is you had homosexual thoughts but choose the other route. Good to know.
Asserting that a million times won't make homosexuality right. To anyone who lets the text speak for itself, God has made it clear that He considers homosexuality a sin. The cultural/historical arguments regarding Romans 1 in favor of homosexuality simply don't work. The conclusions don't follow from the premises. That has been shown logically in this thread. The only question that remains is whether we will submit to the authority of scripture or defy it, trying to make it say something it was never intended to say via eisegesis and twisting.
Those who care about the homosexual community will exhort them to repent of this sin, just as that is the caring thing to do for any people who are guilty of any sin. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful" (Prov. 27:6). Those who assure them that homosexuality is not a sin, however, are essentially withholding the benefits of the gospel from them. How? Christ died to save sinners, and he came to call sinners to repentance. If those who sin are told that their sin is not really sin--whether it's adultery, theft, homosexuality, murder, or whatever--they will see no need to flee to Christ for refuge, to be cleansed of that sin. They will simply continue on in that iniquity, growing harder and harder, more and more impenitent. Christians who proclaim the truth that homosexuality is a sin are homosexuals' best friends, whether those in the gay community feel that way or not.
Fornication is a sin and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of god, it says so-you can historical context all you want. Sex has to take place within marriage. The problem here (and I can't see why anyone in today's culture cares and they are only going to do what they want anyway, christian or no-be that as it may) is that to prevent homosexuals from being fornicators one has to get them married. Does the bible say that they can not be married? If it does, they are SOL.
Fornication is a sin and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of god, it says so-you can historical context all you want. Sex has to take place within marriage. The problem here (and I can't see why anyone in today's culture cares and they are only going to do what they want anyway, christian or no-be that as it may) is that to prevent homosexuals from being fornicators one has to get them married. Does the bible say that they can not be married? If it does, they are SOL.
Marriage is defined, within the bible, as between one man and one woman. Many throughout history have perverted this definition but not changed it because to change it would make one God and that aint gonna happen.
Why must these threads that question the bible become so lengthy and so trivial? The bible is clear on all subject it is the people who are flawed.
Marriage is defined, within the bible, as between one man and one woman. Many throughout history have perverted this definition but not changed it because to change it would make one God and that aint gonna happen.
Why must these threads that question the bible become so lengthy and so trivial? The bible is clear on all subject it is the people who are flawed.
Well the thread becomes long because the thread is titled "Does the Bible say homosexuality is a sin". You however, post about what you believe to be the biblical definition of marriage which really has nothing to do with the OP.
So to answer your question the threads become so lengthy because some people (wink wink.. nudge nudge... pssssssst... you) aren't following the topic at hand.
Fornication is a sin and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of god, it says so-you can historical context all you want. Sex has to take place within marriage. The problem here (and I can't see why anyone in today's culture cares and they are only going to do what they want anyway, christian or no-be that as it may) is that to prevent homosexuals from being fornicators one has to get them married. Does the bible say that they can not be married? If it does, they are SOL.
It's interesting that we even need a book to tell us right from wrong.
Some have become so hardened to the promptings and leadings of the Holy Spirit.
Drawn away with their own encitements and lust that the Spirit no longer has to endure the sludge of negative energy permeated by the low thoughts of Homo-sex.
Hetero-sex hasn't faired much better in the Right-use-ness of Monogomy and chastity until Married.
It is interesting to me that so many people can come up with so many interpretations of the Bible. And each thinks they are right in their interpretation. In our culture anything goes "as long as nobody gets hurt". I do not know of anyone who remains celibate their whole life including no porn or masturbation. I do not know how many single Christians are abstaining from sex until marriage. I have heard and read many say "God knew me before I was born and He knew I was going to be gay, so I know He loves me and accepts me and would not want me to change." God knew we would lie, steal, cheat, gossip, and many other things. Does that mean He endorses such things? I am not convinced anyone chooses the object of their affection gay or straight. It is simply something they become aware of. The difficult part is that the Bible seems to condemn homosexual acts. That means those with same-sex attractions must deny themselves the object of their affection. The Bible indicates the only place for sex is between a married couple..a man and a woman. It does give examples of many heterosexual sins as well. Fornication, adultery, and men lusting after women. I do not recall any examples of women being told not to lust after a man.
Aww man, I'm late to the party. I stumbled upon this thread just now while goofing off at work. Nevertheless I think that to put the original scripture in context might help. I have heard various sources bring up the Cult of Bacchus as the target of this passage of scripture, not homosexuals. I find this theory or a variance of it very likely. As with any demographic throughout history continuing into this very day there are "worst-case-scenarios" for all people groups. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Gays, Whites, Blacks, Republicans, Democrats, Athiests, Football Players, Retirees (I'll stop listing now but it was fun while it lasted) Heck, we could dig up some dirt on a person or persons that qualify under any of these titles and use it as means to discredit the whole lot of them if we wanted... ya know... for kicks. But its not really a valid discreditation. It's just a way to feel better about one's personal title or station in life and frankly a very unattractive habit we as humans have gotten into. Let's face it.. the Bible is a flawed book. You can still believe it to be true and inspired and holy, but don't be in denial that any version of the bible you cling to is infallible... it makes you seem at worst blatantly ignorant and at best hopelessly naive. The bible contradicts itself. "Answer a fool in his folly." "Do not answer a fool in his folly" and thats just in one book (Proverbs) The bible is full of justification of war crimes and genocide, animal cruelty and a host of other nasty things in the name of holiness. It's also got some GREAT advice sprinkled in there, as well as a lasting message of redemption, hope and peace. It's not all bad, it's not all good just like the list of groups I mentioned earlier... just like homosexuals (GASP!) Yes. I said it. There are good homosexuals, or rather, homosexuals that are good people. People who contribute to society, who honor their fathers and mothers, who wouldn't hurt a fly and who aren't trying to eat your babies and destroy marriage.... they wanna be like you! They want to grow up, get married, have a family, change poopy diapers, sit through exhausting PTA meetings, clean up the neighborhood, fight over who did the dishes last and what to watch on tv. Thats just one of the reasons I cannot believe that the scripture originally posted to kick-off this debate is about homosexuals. The cult of Bacchus which historically was thriving during the time that Paul wrote to the Romans is a more likely target for this passage of scriptures. ( BACCHANALIA History ) If you dont want to follow the site I'll give you some descriptors of this cult
"From the time that the rites were thus made common, and men were intermixed with women, and the licentious freedom of the night was added, there was nothing wicked, nothing flagitious, that had not been practiced among them. There were more frequent pollution of men with each other than with women. If any were less patient in submitting to dishonor, or more averse to the commission of vice, they were sacrificed as victims."
These weren't homosexuals.
These were just plain sexuals.
They would have sex with any and everything they thought to... not just men with men, but women with animals and any combination that can be dreamt. They were murderous, ruthless and FIT THE DESCRIPTION of the people Paul is addressing, IN THE CITY TO WHICH PAUL IS SPEAKING. But, hey... I get it. Its just alot easier make something as scary as gay sex the only reason Paul had a reason to chastise these folks. People who don't understand or empathize, or simply need to hate someone, anyone really who falls in love and wants to marry a person of the same gender. Gays now have to deal with generations and generations of clergy who have taken a stereotype of a specific group of crazy homicidal degenerates and have applied it to their neighbors and fellow citizens who bear only one aspect of the groups laundry list of activities and deem those neighbors and fellow citizens as degenerates. Bacchus followers didnt have gay sex because they were same-gender attracted... they had it because they were crazed with lust and rebellion. They didnt have sex because they were in love with their sexual partners, they werent attempting to be monogamous.
Look, just because you cant possibly imagine being attracted to someone of the same gender doesnt give you the right to misinterpret scripture and harm people who do. And no, of course I dont mean just physical harm, although, this scripture's misinterpretation along with a couple of other key scriptures has resulted in the kind of "righteous indignation" that has caused "good God-fearin' boys" to BEAT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING TO DEATH. No, not JUST physical harm, I mean social, emotional, and any other form of harm we humans can think up. That is what homosexuals face from Christians and other religious and social groups who cant wrap their mind around something they don't ever have to be a part of.
Don't bring up Leviticus- none of us follow those laws.
Don't say its a choice- (to quote a famous pundit) "How many teenagers do you think woke up this morning and said... "Hmmm... how can I get beat up today?"
Christian = Follower of Christ
Show me in the red letters where Jesus said a word about 2 same-gendered people who wanted to get married, be monogamous, enter into covenant with one another, and grow old together? You can't.
Even if you do believe that this passage of Romans was dedicated to only homosexuals and not a specific group of people, I would like to request that you change your title to "Paulian" instead of "Christian" if you are going to hate, disdain, deny equal rights and crusade against homosexuals as a group.
Last edited by othermomhsv; 09-08-2011 at 12:14 PM..
Marriage is defined, within the bible, as between one man and one woman. Many throughout history have perverted this definition but not changed it because to change it would make one God and that aint gonna happen.
Why must these threads that question the bible become so lengthy and so trivial? The bible is clear on all subject it is the people who are flawed.
Lol, wrong. The Bible wasn't written in English. Do you understand the nuances and complexities of ancient Hebrew and Greek, based on ancient cultural context?
The Bible doesn't say one man and woman is the only option, it merely lists it, because the authors were a patriarchal culture, and women were property of their husbands. That was the most common arrangement, and therefore the one most applicable to society as a whole.
The Bible doesn't say who intersex individuals can marry, and yet they exist.
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