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I am reading the book, that is why I have questions. To be honest all I see here is people bickering and attacking each other, for a forum that isn't a Christian forum (your words) where Christians can talk and not be attacked you are all doing a pretty good job within your own space.
Maybe this isn't the forum for me, I am looking for help and I thought as Christians you would want to help me find God. I am not looking to be ridiculed for asking questions. My relationship to God still remains personal and I am still looking for answers, I don't want to be the cause of anger for people so I am sorry if by asking a simple question I caused a stir because it wasn't my intention.
Ephesians 1:17 "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know Him better."
Now you see why I say this is NOT a Christian forum. Charles Stanley has several books that I think may help you, his books are all biblical based. Check out his website, Home - In Touch Ministries - Dr. Charles Stanley 2010 (http://www.intouch.org/site/c.cnKBIPNuEoG/b.4945473/k.BE35/Home.htm - broken link)
Jeremiah 29:13 "If you look for Me in earnest you will find Me when you seek Me".
Believers SIN.
Believers sin. It is arrogant to think that it is possible for believers not to sin. And arrogance is one of the worst of all sins. As long as a believer is in this mortal body he is going to sin from time to time because the body has the old sin nature residing in it.
And, they will go to hell if they keep on sinning. God told the first man and woman not to sin or they would die; that message remains the same today.
God gives His children the power to refrain from sin.
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7
When you commit sin you have the devil's image. Jesus came to break the devil's grip.
Is this a typo? "We are called not to love unbelievers" ??
Matt 5:43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Rom. 12:18 - If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Col. 4:5-6 - Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
We are called not to marry or be partners with unbelievers.
To be honest, that verse (Matt. 5) slipped my mind, but there is no doubt that behavior among Christians themselves should be different than behavior with unbelievers.
But note that other than Matt. 5 and Luke 6 when Jesus addresses the Jews (not believers technically) - there is no mention of loving enemies.
There are numerous mentions of loving the brethren - or loving one another.
And, they will go to hell if they keep on sinning. God told the first man and woman not to sin or they would die; that message remains the same today.
God gives His children the power to refrain from sin.
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7
When you commit sin you have the devil's image.
A believer does not go to hell for sinning. No matter how many times he sins, Jesus Christ already paid the penalty for those sins with regard to the issue of eternal salvation. But he will come under divine disciplne in time. All disobedience of the believer is handled as a family matter. Prov. 3:11; Heb. 12:5-13; Rev. 3;19-21. The sins of the believer are why God provided the principle of 1 John 1:9.
A believer does not go to hell for sinning. No matter how many times he sins, Jesus Christ already paid the penalty for those sins with regard to the issue of eternal salvation. But he will come under divine disciplne in time. All disobedience of the believer is handled as a family matter. Prov. 3:11; Heb. 12:5-13; Rev. 3;19-21. The sins of the believer are why God provided the principle of 1 John 1:9.
Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
All sinners are going to hell, whether they profess Jesus as Lord or not.
People had better heed this warning. Jesus bled and died to set us free from sin, and sickness too. If you die with just one willful sin in your heart, you will be greeted with the flames of hell. This "everybody sins" doctrine is from the pits of hell.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: - Genesis 3:4
The Holy Ghost killed Ananias and Sapphira for their sin. What makes you think He will overlook ours?
Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
All sinners are going to hell, whether they profess Jesus as Lord or not.
People had better heed this warning. Jesus bled and died to set us free from sin, and sickness too. If you die with just one willful sin in your heart, you will be greeted with the flames of hell. This "everybody sins" doctrine is from the pits of hell.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: - Genesis 3:4
The Holy Ghost killed Ananias and Sapphira for their sin. What makes you think He will overlook ours?
To the contrary. Even unbelievers don't go to hell because of their sins, even though they die in them. The work of Christ on the Cross was finished. He died in our place. He already paid the penalty for every sin in the entire history of the human race, past, present and future.
Hebrews 10:10 'By this will we have been sanctified (set apart unto God) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.' Now this passage is referring to and is addressed to believers only. This is made clear in Acts 26:18 ''to open their eyes so that they may turn form darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'
The sacrifice of Christ on the Cross was efficacious. Hebrews 10:12 'but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God...'
Christ already paid for all sin for all time with regard to eternal salvation. The law of double jeopardy. You cannot be judged again for a sin that has already been paid for. Since Christ was already judged for our sins, we cannot be judged for those sins. Sin is not the issue in salvation. The issue in salvation is Acts 16:31, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.'' Period.
Ananias and Sapphira were believers. And as believers they were removed from this life under maximum divine discipline. They did not lose their salvation. They went home (in disgrace) to be with the Lord.
After Adam sinned, God provided the means of salvation, so that the relationship between God and man could be restored. Any member of the human race who receives God's offer of salvation by grace alone,through faith alone, in Christ alone, can never under any circumstance lose that salvation.
Revelation 20: 11-15 makes it clear that unbelievers are condemned because of their works. Not their sins.
Here is what people need to understand. Your salvation depends entirely on the work of Christ on the Cross. And as a result of what Christ did on our behalf in making salvation possible, God offers the free gift of salvation to whosoever will believe in Christ for salvation. That means that once a person understands the issue in salvation, he must place his trust, his faith, his dependence totally in/on Christ for salvation. If anyone is depending on his own efforts in any way to become or to maintain his salvation, such as thinking that he must refrain from sin in order to be saved, then he has never understood the issue. Salvation is the result of understanding that it all depends on Christ, and so a person who desires to be saved, who desires to place his faith in Christ, is saved and will never lose that salvation. One simple expression to God the Father of your desire to be saved through faith in Christ and you are forever saved. The merit is not in your faith, but rather, the merit is in the object of faith, which is Jesus Christ. Man gets no credit for faith. The faith is simply the vehicle by which man receives the offer of salvation.
Probably nothing of what I just said will make any difference to those who persist in being legalistic in their thinking. But for whoever will listen, I have provided the following links which explain both eternal security and the means of restoration to fellowship for the believer after he has sinned.
Doctrine of Rebound (http://jrcyouth.com/love1.htm - broken link)
Understand this. God's policy toward man is grace. Grace is everything that God is free to do for man on the basis of the Cross.
And though a believer should not give himself over to sin, if he does, it is a family matter and he will be disciplined as a son. He will not lose his salvation.
If Satan cannot prevent someone from being saved, he will try to make that believers spiritual life of no effect by causing him to constantly worry about losing his salvation through disobedience. If someone is legalistic then they can not orient themselves to the grace of God and they are useless as far as their spiritual life is concerned.
Oh yes. Regarding Gal. 5:21, there is a difference between entering the kingdom of God and inheritiing the kingdom of God. Inheriting the kingdom of God has to do with the rewards, blessings, decorations, and privileges that belong to the believer who overcomes-who advances to spiritual maturity, as opposed to the believer who is saved and enters the kingdom of God minus the rewards.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-14-2010 at 06:33 PM..
You have just described Genesis 2 and 3. Let me substitute in your analogy.
HOW does this situation differ from GOD holding a [spiritual] gun to the head of ADAM whom he loves and saying . . . you are free to love Me (displayed by keeping the Lord's command of not eating from the tree) . . and I want you to love me . . . but if you don't YOU WILL SURELY DIE?????
That's what happened, right? Adam chose to eat from the tree - and he died.
Is it still illogical?
Yes . . . and profoundly evil to threaten anything to get love. Only ignorant primitives or immature minds could possibly believe that a loving God would threaten to gain love . . . . and ACCEPT such monstrous reasoning as the truth about God's motives. This kind of thinking explains a lot of the domestic violence . . . even murder . . . by insane husbands or lovers who also think it makes sense to threaten to gain love . . . OR ELSE. It is bizarre and not remotely God-like. I can easily see Satan doing so, however . . . and convincing ignorant primitive savages from 2000-4000+ years ago to think that way as well. What I cannot see is modern civilized and intelligent humans accepting it without question or even trying to see a more reasonable explanation.
Rom. 12:18 - If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Col. 4:5-6 - Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
Neither of these verses says to not love unbelievers.
Quote:
We are called not to marry or be partners with unbelievers.
Sure, maybe, but are you neglecting the possibility that an unbeliever will one day be a believer? God clearly tells us to love our enemies. How can we be a good witness for Christ if we only love believers?
Quote:
To be honest, that verse (Matt. 5) slipped my mind, but there is no doubt that behavior among Christians themselves should be different than behavior with unbelievers.
But note that other than Matt. 5 and Luke 6 when Jesus addresses the Jews (not believers technically) - there is no mention of loving enemies.
So? Does that somehow discount 'loving our enemies'?
Quote:
There are numerous mentions of loving the brethren - or loving one another.
Read Matt 5 again.
Matt 5:46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
This is what God does:
Psalm 145:9 The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made.
Psalm 145:17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways and loving toward all he has made.
1 Cor 13 tells us what love is - patience, kindness, selflessness, etc -> this is how we are to treat enemies and unbelievers!
Romans 12
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. ...
20 On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
This is important stuff to understand. If we do not love unbelievers, what is left but hating them? One who hates is a murderer and will not see life:
1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Romans 13:9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Love your neighbor. This does not specify believer nor unbeliever. This commandment to love fulfills all the other commandments. Are we allowed to steal from unbelievers? Covet? MURDER?
Everyone needs to learn this. That is why we are all here.
And don't kid youself. When you sin as a believer, God holds you responsible for the decision you made to sin. He isn't going to say, ''Well it wasn't really you that sinned, it was that nasty old sin nature of yours.''
Our sin nature has been crucified, we no longer have it. However, we are still in our flesh.
Romans 7
But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Because he loved you so much and God's desire is that whoever believes in Jesus as your subsitute for payment of sin will be invited to live with him forever.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
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