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Another thread started me thinking about Paul. He was a complex man and some of his letters were directed to certain churches with particular problems.
Anytime I read Paul's writings I get the feeling that he is teaching lessons based on what he knows of the Scriptures and of what is going on in the churches. And since those things were important to those churches at that point in time, I wonder some of his teachings are still valid and have importance to us.
For example, the admonition that women should keep their heads covered when they pray. AND if one didn't, then she was to be shorn. Should we accept that about women praying bareheaded today? Should we shave their heads if they didn't? And what about not cutting their hair? Do women add to their load of sin and guilt because they cut their hair? Should they repent and ask for forgiveness every time they go to the Beauty Parlor?
I can see how scripture such as this one and the insistance that it's ALL the word of God would turn people away. Paul was very adamant in his teachings.
I wouldn't get caught up in the "legality" of head coverings. Most head covering were symbols related to a particular activity... like prayer. Yamika's are required for prayer, as well as symbolic of God having authority over man. Upon approaching the Western (Wailing) Wall, you must have your head covered.
No different for head coverings. Some may have thought it was just having long hair... but I tend to doubt that based on Judeo/Christian customs. The other argument (if you will) is to symbolize a husbands authority over a woman... that maybe a corrupt view... but not Biblical in my opinion.
The current view widely held, is in order to meet this requirement from God any symbol that indicates God's authority or belonging to God... will due. Such as a cross, bowing of the head, your hands over your head... these sort of things... and only in public.
In no way was Paul trying to invoke legalism... let me give an example of a good symbol gone awry. Muslims have similar rules about covering... but the legal thinking enters the equation... and to cover your head to show God's authority, then spawns the thinking... if a little is good... then a lot is better, so more covering=more devout. That again is; man + works= holy. Paul was trying to illustrate that respect and humility is necessary for our prayer to have it's full affect when presenting supplication to the Lord.... and again, only when doing this publicly, for good witness.
Yes, sometimes it is difficult to tease out what has spiritual applications for all peoples and all times and what was merely addressing that specific culture. It's important to make those distinctions about what is still a spiritual application and what is dealing "the letter of the law." I think, though, with proper Biblical scholarship and the discernment of the Holy Spirit, it is possible. Of course, not all groups are going to agree. Certain groups, notably Catholics and some high church Episcopalians still cover their heads in church. (Maybe they don't anymore actually... I don't know but I know they did a few years ago.) Certain Pentecostal groups still do not allow the women to cut their hair or wear jewelry. So again, the interpretation of the applications vary. IMO you need to somehow walk a balance between getting into, again, the "letter of the law" rather than the"Spirit of the Law" and on the other extreme, mishandling the word of God.
The one thing about this sort of Scripture that bothers me, is that I think these tiny admonitions, when read by those that are searching, tend to turn people away. They read a chapter like this one pertaining to head coverings and hair and decide that the entire thing is not for them.
That's why I think that it's important to point out from time to time that while the Bible may be an Inspired Book, it must be interpreted by the heart. It's not just enough to read the words, believe they are true, and not seek further enlightenment. I really believe there are people that are turned away from any sort of fruitful spiritual life by that attitude.
The one thing about this sort of Scripture that bothers me, is that I think these tiny admonitions, when read by those that are searching, tend to turn people away. They read a chapter like this one pertaining to head coverings and hair and decide that the entire thing is not for them.
That's why I think that it's important to point out from time to time that while the Bible may be an Inspired Book, it must be interpreted by the heart. It's not just enough to read the words, believe they are true, and not seek further enlightenment. I really believe there are people that are turned away from any sort of fruitful spiritual life by that attitude.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Padgett2 again.
This is a really interesting topic. I've often had the same questions regarding Paul's teachings. Some of his teachings kinda rub me "the wrong way", for example this one:
1 Cor 14
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
A shame for them to speak in church? Why? I can remember hearing women speak in church, and I heard absolutely wonderful testamonies....there was just nothing shameful about it. I have never been in any church where women were forbidden to speak, and I can't think of any good reason why they would not be allowed to. And, what if a woman was not married....she'd have no husband at home to ask questions of. Maybe the law Paul referred to was some obscure local law of men that they had to obey (at the time), not a law of God from the scriptures? I remember reading Paul's letter and thinking "I REALLY don't agree with this....". Apparently many churches today don't agree either, because the women all spoke in the ones I've been to. (about a dozen various denominations) But, I know of at least one church where I live that even today will not allow women to hold ANY ordained position...about the most they will allow is for them to teach other women....nothing more.
Well, that's my comment on this. What I am saying is I'm uncomfortable with some of what I read in Paul's letters, but I don't have a "doctrinal" position on it. It's just that I don't like it, and I don't see a reason why it should apply in today's churches. Maybe theres something I don't know, or understand, about why Paul said the things he said, about women in the church. Something, that if I were to know about, would make me go "OH!....now I understand!". Until then, I dunno....
This is a really interesting topic. I've often had the same questions regarding Paul's teachings. Some of his teachings kinda rub me "the wrong way", for example this one:
1 Cor 14
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
A shame for them to speak in church? Why? I can remember hearing women speak in church, and I heard absolutely wonderful testamonies....there was just nothing shameful about it. I have never been in any church where women were forbidden to speak, and I can't think of any good reason why they would not be allowed to. And, what if a woman was not married....she'd have no husband at home to ask questions of. Maybe the law Paul referred to was some obscure local law of men that they had to obey (at the time), not a law of God from the scriptures? I remember reading Paul's letter and thinking "I REALLY don't agree with this....". Apparently many churches today don't agree either, because the women all spoke in the ones I've been to. (about a dozen various denominations) But, I know of at least one church where I live that even today will not allow women to hold ANY ordained position...about the most they will allow is for them to teach other women....nothing more.
Well, that's my comment on this. What I am saying is I'm uncomfortable with some of what I read in Paul's letters, but I don't have a "doctrinal" position on it. It's just that I don't like it, and I don't see a reason why it should apply in today's churches. Maybe theres something I don't know, or understand, about why Paul said the things he said, about women in the church. Something, that if I were to know about, would make me go "OH!....now I understand!". Until then, I dunno....
Bud
This was addressed in a thread a few week ago. Unfortunately, I don't remember which one but ILNC had a very good cultural explanation for it, I though (about the women keeping silent) It had to do with it being a specific situation which Paul was trying to address there in Corinth. ILNC, can you help us out again?
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First, it's not Paul's teaching, but the teaching of the Holy spirit that inspired him (2 Timothy 3:16) Second, yes all of Scripture esp. the New Testament is for us today. Third, seeing space is limited go to this link for teaching on 1 Corinthians 11:1-16.
I find Paul's background and history much more interesting than his writings. I agree that further enlightenment is needed when reading and everything cannot be taken word for word. There is too much open for us to interpret. This really is a great thread
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Let's see where this goes!
1 Cor 11:2-16
Paul was trying to illustrate that respect and humility is necessary for our prayer to have it's full affect when presenting supplication to the Lord.... and again, only when doing this publicly, for good witness.
