Moving to Cincinnati- My Observations (Columbus, Cleveland: low income, foreclosures, rentals)

[Arctic_6]

Hi, I will be attending the University of Cincinnati as a graduate student in Sociology, and I move on the first weekend of September. I tend to research everything a ton if it interests me, and this forum definitely provides a lot of information (both good and bad) about the Cincinnati area. As such, I figured I would give a few observations about my 5 visits to the area so far and hopefully serve as a little introduction to myself.

First of all, as far as my residency history goes, I lived in a small town in Southwest VA for 19 years, and then moved to Asheville, NC for five years following that. Asheville's population is around 75,000 and its metro area is about 130,000 last I checked. I visited Philadelphia, Charlotte, Baltimore, and Columbus before seeing Cincinnati.

I love the architecture in Cincinnati. The whole art deco Golden Age feel makes it honestly one of the most beautiful cities. I spent a lot of time downtown just looking at the buildings and marveling over how much Cincinnati looks more like a traditional "city" than bigger, sprawling offerings like Columbus. The compact downtown with a clearly recognizable skyline makes Cincinnati both memorable and grandiose, in my opinion.

The neighborhoods all look and feel distinct. It kind of bothers me when I hear about how people act in "Cincinnati" because I feel that people in CBD act much differently than people in Clifton Gaslight (which seems to be the most liberal section of the city), and every neighborhood seems to offer something very distinct. In this way, it seems that Cincinnati could offer something for almost everyone.

When I first got into the university I kind of panicked about Cincinnati's status as a rust-belt city, and it conjured up images of the industrial ruin that once ran rampant in Pittsburgh and seems to dominate many perceptions of Cleveland. When I talked about moving to Cinci, people would scoff and make fun of me for choosing the midwest and especially somewhere as "backwards and boring" as Cincinnati. My impression upon visiting changed that completely. Cincinnati's multiple improvement projects, the slowly growing population, and the number of successful and powerful Fortune 500 companies located there really impressed me. As someone many would call a "transplant," it actually makes me feel like part of the same kind of migration that brings revenue and growth to a very deserving city.

People also commented on the "backwards" stereotype of Southwestern Ohio, but after visiting the area a few times it seems to me that the stereotype doesn't stand to evidence. Of course some communities (Morning Sun and places like it) represent the same kind of religious conservativism that occur in much of the rural US, but Cinci itself seems conservative mostly in the way it behaves as a town and not necessarily politically. The talking heads don't determine the political bent of a city, though I know that some of Cinci's could put Limbaugh to shame. :-P I actually enjoy the fact that Cincinnati takes small steps for progress and remains fairly democratic. It keeps that beautiful downtown architecture and many areas from being overshadowed by growth. Imagine if Cincinnati took big, bold moves and built several new highrises off to the sides of the downtown skyline, destroying its classic look. Even more modern looking buildings like Scripps Center and the Great American Tower fit the city's style.

The racial segregation and (somewhat related) crime do bother me. I know that it happens in many cities, and as a sociology student I understand why. But after studying the race riots of 2001 and the rising crime later, I actually feel better about safety in Cincinnati. I know not to go to certain neighborhoods at certain times in the day (thanks to this forum and crime statistics, mostly), and it seems that common sense dictates safety for the most part. As far as the "19th most dangerous city" label goes, I know that the CPD issued an unofficial "work slowdown" in neighborhoods which they could attribute as contributors to the riots (i.e. OTR) which resulted in a mass increase in crime. In 2000 the murder rate was 15, in 2006 it was over 80. Now it's around 64. That seems much safer to me than the label makes it sound.

Overall, I look forward to moving to the area. I do think you could call Cincinnati "The most beautiful of the inland American cities" quite easily. I guess, as someone who grew up in a city of 17,000 and moved to a city of 75,000 the idea of NYC didn't appeal as much for some reason. Especially the price. Cinci's population of 333,000 (2000 Census) or 360,000 (City officials) actual feels misleading, too. While cities like Columbus feel huge with a population of ~700,000, the metro area doesn't much exceed that at 1.8 million. Cinci's metro area, at 2.3 million, makes the area feel huge by comparison, and probably creates much of that eclectic feel in the neighborhoods and suburbs.

I don't know that this post says anything useful, and feel free to offer me your thoughts on Cincinnati as well. I just got too excited about moving tonight to hold it all in, so I stopped lurking and finally posted something.

Thanks for your time.

[Bhiggins]

We are F***ING awesome.

[progmac]

awesome posts and it is nice to see someone take some time to try to understand a place.

yes - the art deco influence around downtown is remarkable - you just don't see it very frequently because the great depression managed to prevent art deco from having as strong an architectural impact as it would have otherwise (our Carew tower was famously built during the great depression thanks to a smart investor that pulled out of the market just before the crash).

Yes, the architecture is good. We have better architecture than any other midwestern city and of course better than the sunbelt and most of the west.

Yes, the neighborhoods are unique and vibrant. Yes, we have a segregation problem.

There really isn't another place like this. It is unfortunate that most people in this country are ignorant of what midwestern cities can offer - or maybe it is a good thing - it keeps prices down and prevents the geographical obnoxiousness that is easily observed in the attitudes in most of the west and northeast. Our economy has stayed strong through the recession, so creating for oneself a decent life is very practical here.

Welcome and enjoy your life in Cincinnati. I'd love to see stats, but a tremendous amount of UC grads decide to stay in the area after graduation.

[kjbrill]

I believe you have done a very good job researching and evaluating the city as a whole. Can't think of much you said I would disagree with.

Just one minor? area. I think a degree of the racial segregation is by choice rather than pressure. I know in my neighborhood we have had several minority families move in since the housing collapse and foreclosures. There have been some great buys. I have not heard one whimper of comment about those people, etc. 30 years ago, that would not have been the case. In fact, I am seeing the opposite, people moving in, tending to their yard like everyone else, using the community pool. The neighborhood is quite active in relation to the number of people who jog, ride bikes, or just go out for a walk with a stroller for the kid. Frankly I am encouraged by how smoothly this increased integration seems to be going.

However, I must admit one thing - this area is not cheap, good buy or not. So I perceive the prevailing attitude has become if you can afford to buy here everyone is going to offer you an initial welcome, believing our values are not very far apart.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I believe you have done a very good job researching and evaluating the city as a whole. Can't think of much you said I would disagree with.

Just one minor? area. I think a degree of the racial segregation is by choice rather than pressure. I know in my neighborhood we have had several minority families move in since the housing collapse and foreclosures. There have been some great buys. I have not heard one whimper of comment about those people, etc. 30 years ago, that would not have been the case. In fact, I am seeing the opposite, people moving in, tending to their yard like everyone else, using the community pool. The neighborhood is quite active in relation to the number of people who jog, ride bikes, or just go out for a walk with a stroller for the kid. Frankly I am encouraged by how smoothly this increased integration seems to be going.

However, I must admit one thing - this area is not cheap, good buy or not. So I perceive the prevailing attitude has become if you can afford to buy here everyone is going to offer you an initial welcome, believing our values are not very far apart.

Bingo. I live in as ethnically diverse a neighborhood as you're likely to find in the Cincinnati area, and I believe it works because of the shared values aspect. Yes, there are more white West-siders than any other ethnic group, but we have a substantial number of African-Americans, folks from the Phillipines, various countries in Asia, and people from Italy and several parts of eastern Europe. As far as occupations, it's mostly small business owners, teachers and medical professionals. People here keep an eye on what's happening in the neighborhood and take decent care of their property. The only real eyesore is the house owned by some white jerk who I'm told earns a couple of nursing homes, and who grudgingly repairs the code violations on his house just enough to keep ahead of a condemnation order.

[Arctic_6]

Thanks for the responses so far. I could see how a lot of the segregation occurred voluntarily in Cinci, especially given its status as sort of a Mecca for the Underground Railroad. That probably built some strong and enduring African American cultures and neighborhoods in the area. I suppose the work slowdown by the police department bothered me more. I know it happens in bigger cities a lot, and it happens all the time in rural areas, but something about it doesn't sit right. For a police department to let crime "run wild" in certain parts of the city (a jump from 15 to 89 in murder rate alone pretty much fits the bill) for what appears to be retribution for riots that happened in 2001 seems like shooting oneself in the foot a bit. When they end that slowdown, it makes the neighborhoods that much harder to patrol again, more hostile, etc.

I say this knowing that I don't live in Cinci yet and and also admitting that it does seem like a really safe place overall. I don't want the post to sound alarmist, and I don't think the increase in crime will be permanent, either. The part of my post dealing with crime/segregation basically served as kind of a vent for my frustration that an organization accredited to "protect and serve" would refuse to do either because the work might be difficult and at least partially out of spite for the actions of a group of people.

[Vintrest]

Originally Posted by Arctic_6

Thanks for the responses so far. I could see how a lot of the segregation occurred voluntarily in Cinci, especially given its status as sort of a Mecca for the Underground Railroad. That probably built some strong and enduring African American cultures and neighborhoods in the area. I say this knowing that I don't live in Cinci yet and and also admitting that it does seem like a really safe place overall. I don't want the post to sound alarmist, and I don't think the increase in crime will be permanent, either. The part of my post dealing with crime/segregation basically served as kind of a vent for my frustration that an organization accredited to "protect and serve" would refuse to do either because the work might be difficult and at least partially out of spite for the actions of a group of people.

I too am a non-resident but as a person who thoroughly researches a place before relocation, I've studied Cincinnati's history carefully. The WPA writers project wrote a history of the City in the 1940's and I have a well worn copy as well as an equally well-read 1939 copy of the City by Madame De Chambrun, one of the members of Cincinnati's iconic Longworth family. In 1988 a Centennial history was published as well with some nice photos. For earlier histories, there's an 1850 history as well as the 1892 Daniel J. Kenny history available for free download. I also own a number of other books about Cincinnati's decorative arts history and architecture.

From these books I have learned that although Cincinnati did have some African American residents who came there via the Underground Railroad, until about 1900, the AA percentage of the city population was in the 2% range. It was only during the early 1900's during the time when Jim Crow laws and racial discriminatory practices dominated the South that thousands of African Americans pulled up stakes and often left poor sharecropper farms in the South to move to northern and midwestern industrial cities for jobs and a perceived better standard of living. During that time Cincinnati was a highly industrialized city with thousands of factories and many many jobs. There was relative prosperity in the city and an expanding African American population that was slowly pulling themselves out of poverty. The West End was being called Cincinnati's Harlem during this renaissance of the 1920's and had it's own AA newspaper. Walnut Hills also had a vibrant African American community during this time as well. According to Madame De Chambrun, there were 8,000 African American residents in Walnut Hills during the 1930's. Respectful relations between the races seem to have been more harmonious back then.

However, beginning in the 1950's, massive Federal funded Freeway projects often deliberately plotted their paths through low income Black neighborhoods. "Redlining" and "blockbusting" practices were employed and neighborhoods suffered as many of the residents were displaced. As manufacturing declined, the percentages of AA's living in poverty rose. During the 1950's and 1960's Cincinnati experienced classic "White Flight" with entire neighborhoods going from all White to all Black as residents were displaced by freeway projects. The late 1960's gave rise to political and racial polarization nation-wide. The suburbs became the de facto refuge for former White city dwellers and formerly vibrant urban neighborhoods declined when unscrupulous landlords, focused solely on profit, converted many fine historic single family homes to cheap rentals. (thus changing neighborhoods from homeowner occupied to mostly renters)

A low point in the City's history occurred during the 2001 riots but while they were and still are regrettable, they also sparked an introspection and dialog into race relations in the City. Today, still much of Cincinnati is divided along racial demographic lines, but gradually those lines are becoming more faint and blurred. A rising class of affluent and educated Black professionals are taking their place among their White peers in the nicer suburbs and this is being counter-balanced by a back-to-the-cities urban movement gaining momentum and favor among young and educated Whites and other minorities (including "yuppies", environmentalists, historic preservationists/a/k/a "Urban Pioneers", gays, artists, and a diverse number of other minorities, some foreign-born) Gentrification is becoming more widespread in old neighborhoods and again is causing displacement of some long-time residents. (as is happening gradually in the OTR) With our current President being African American as well as much of Cincinnati's city government comprised of people of color, the opportunities exists today for the City to embrace diversity and dissolve the old geographic neighborhood barriers between races. With all the challenges we as Americans now face in the 21st century, racial division should no longer be one of them. I feel very optimistic that the 10th anniversary of the Riots will demonstrate how much progress has been made in Cincinnati rather than how entrenched old attitudes still are. Progress is about moving forward, not backwards, and every one of us can do our small part.

[Cincy-Rise]

Artic_6, you are my hero!

I too have a strong interest in Sociology and believe it or not ... your knowledge/common sense already surpasses that of many long-time residents. No exaggeration.

I've lived in Colerain, Downtown in the CBD and am within a 10-15 minute walk from Fountain Square. I'd like to move back into the CBD and maybe even the Banks - if I can afford it with the square footage that I need.

Shoot me a PM with any questions you might have!

[cincyforlife]

i love finding people who actually appreciate this city for it's unique flair.

[kelent]

As a NY'er looking to relocate outside of Cincinnati I enjoyed this post and following comments. I am concerned about my 7 year old receiving poor treatment form neighbors and even teachers due to our family's liberal views and lifestyle. I guess liberalism is something a liberal takes for granted living in a liberal area!