Just out of curiosity...why is real estate so cheap? (Cincinnati: low income, for sale)

[oldhousejunkie]

As I peruse dozens of historic homes for sale, the one thing I see in common is the ridiculously low sales prices. Is it just the recession or what?

I was shocked to see an absolutely gorgeous Tudor style home clocking in at 2100 sq feet for LESS than what I paid for our 850 sq ft bungalow here in SC.

Even my hubby questioned this as I excited told him about all the different houses that would fall in our price range should be re-locate to Cincy. I couldn't really come up with a decent answer!

The only thing I could come up with is that there seems to be a surplus of historic homes in comparison to new-builds...which, oddly enough, is not the case here in SC as subdivisions litter the landscape.

Any insights?

[Joeytraveler]

It comes down to location, location, location. This city can be described as a pocket city where you have little pockets neighborhoods that change dramtically one block over. Alot of it has to do with the topography. Anyway post some addresses and I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions.

[oldhousejunkie]

Yes, location always matters. The sad thing is that my house in SC was in a transitional neighborhood that looks far worse than any of the streets that I've google street viewed in Cincy.

But for example, this house is in the Covedale Garden District:

Beautiful Bungalow (http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/reo/1933751010.html - broken link)

That kind of house would go for upwards up $200,000 here in SC.

And this one in Westwood:

Residential listings For Sale in Cincinnati, OH $79,900 (http://listings.point2.com/1001854646/ - broken link)

It would sell for at least $30,000 more here.

It's like I've hit the promised land of historic real estate!! :-)

[kjbrill]

Before you get too excited, take the advice on location, location, location. If you compare the population of Cincinnati to the greater Cincinnati Metropolitan area, it is obvious there was a mass exodus, or suburban flight, from the city. I don't think any logical person can deny this. And during this period, Cincinnati Public Schools began to have a dismal reputation, further accelerating the exodus.

I believe CPS has been fighting back, and frankly am not close enough to the subject to say if they are winning.

For residences, some neighborhood areas like OTR seem to be dramatically changing, but from what I can see it is due to a much higher class of lofts and condos taking over due to its proximity to downtown. But in reality, the population of OTR is deceasing. You have some other areas like the gaslight district in Clifton, but face facts, it is near a major university and several hospitals. Just the faculty alone is enough to make it viable.

We have our proponents for preservation and reconstruction, and that is good. But be careful and spend a lot of time researching the specific Cincinnati neighborhoods you may be interested in. Remember the old adage It is difficult to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[oldhousejunkie]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

We have our proponents for preservation and reconstruction, and that is good. But be careful and spend a lot of time researching the specific Cincinnati neighborhoods you may be interested in. Remember the old adage It is difficult to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Oh my yes. I learned the hard way when I invested in the house that I own now. I was all in for the urban pioneer preservationist thing. That went out the door the second time our house got broken into.

Now I'm stuck with a house in a neighborhood that was stabilizing before the economic downturn and is now....struggling (to put it nicely). I've tried to sell it once with no luck, and then finally managed to rent it. I hope when it comes time to sell, I won't lose my shirt. But in any case, I've learned a seriously hard lesson.

If we relocate, and when it comes time to buy, I'm definitely pulling the crime stats this time around! And school districts aren't a huge deal for us since we don't have children. When we do, I think we're going to go the charter or Montessori school route.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by oldhousejunkie

Yes, location always matters. The sad thing is that my house in SC was in a transitional neighborhood that looks far worse than any of the streets that I've google street viewed in Cincy.

But for example, this house is in the Covedale Garden District:

Beautiful Bungalow (http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/reo/1933751010.html - broken link)

That kind of house would go for upwards up $200,000 here in SC.

And this one in Westwood:

Residential listings For Sale in Cincinnati, OH $79,900 (http://listings.point2.com/1001854646/ - broken link)

It would sell for at least $30,000 more here.

It's like I've hit the promised land of historic real estate!! :-)

The deal is that there's a big stock of these types of houses in Cincinnati, so supply and demand probably helps hold the prices down.

You didn't mention anything about children. The abysmally bad Cincinnati Public Schools (which do incorporate a few excellent specialty and magnet schools) also depress property values in areas served by that school district. Some of us who don't have school age children and plan to live in our homes for a long time don't much care about the bad schools.

Of the two houses you listed, the McKinley Ave. neighborhood is one definitely to be avoided. There are parts of Westwood to which I'd direct a family member or loved one with an eye to buying a home; that's not in one of those parts.

Covedale certainly has some nice and relatively quiet, safe residential streets. That one looks interesting. The rooms, as you probably have inferred, are probably going to be quite small. But yeah, houses like that are a dime a dozen around here.

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by oldhousejunkie

Oh my yes. I learned the hard way when I invested in the house that I own now. I was all in for the urban pioneer preservationist thing. That went out the door the second time our house got broken into.

Now I'm stuck with a house in a neighborhood that was stabilizing before the economic downturn and is now....struggling (to put it nicely). I've tried to sell it once with no luck, and then finally managed to rent it. I hope when it comes time to sell, I won't lose my shirt. But in any case, I've learned a seriously hard lesson.

Rule #1 for anyone relocating. Don't fall in love with the house based on pictures or real estate agents' recommendations. They will sell you a house ANYWHERE but it will be YOU having to put up with where you buy.

I remember my first house in St. Louis - tax abatements, everyone talking about it being an "up and coming" neighborhood with all of the "restoration" promoters. In ten years, there were two shootings, six crack houses, and my house was burglarized three times ... and that does not include the guy who left his bloody jeans in the mouth of my german shepherd.

Make sure that you visit any neighborhood, especially on a Friday or Saturday night to see the area.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by jlawrence01

Rule #1 for anyone relocating. Don't fall in love with the house based on pictures or real estate agents' recommendations. They will sell you a house ANYWHERE but it will be YOU having to put up with where you buy.

I remember my first house in St. Louis - tax abatements, everyone talking about it being an "up and coming" neighborhood with all of the "restoration" promoters. In ten years, there were two shootings, six crack houses, and my house was burglarized three times ... and that does not include the guy who left his bloody jeans in the mouth of my german shepherd.

Make sure that you visit any neighborhood, especially on a Friday or Saturday night to see the area.

Check out all of the neighborhoods. But keep in mind that Cincinnati feels downright run-down in some parts that are perfectly safe.

The is what looks like an AMAZING house for sale in westwood right now at $249k. It is worth looking up.

Our historic real estate is undervalued because until recently there just hasn't been much interest in it. Look at columbia-tusculum, a new construction townhouse will sell for $350k whereas a reasonably restored equal square footage 1880s victorian will go for $220k. Maybe that's typical, I don't really know.

[sandasene]

Originally Posted by progmac

Check out all of the neighborhoods. But keep in mind that Cincinnati feels downright run-down in some parts that are perfectly safe.

The is what looks like an AMAZING house for sale in westwood right now at $249k. It is worth looking up.

Our historic real estate is undervalued because until recently there just hasn't been much interest in it. Look at columbia-tusculum, a new construction townhouse will sell for $350k whereas a reasonably restored equal square footage 1880s victorian will go for $220k. Maybe that's typical, I don't really know.

That is an amazing house:
2823 Harrison Ave

[Vintrest]

Originally Posted by sandasene

That is an amazing house:
2823 Harrison Ave

Yes, it is. Doubtful that a person today could even buy the raw materials that went into building this solid as a battleship brick and stone mansion for the price that it is being offered for sale. (let alone find the old world craftsmanship and attention to detail) At the time this mansion was built, Harrison Avenue was home to millionaires and was lined with mansions. Stop by and take a look at this house and it's equally grand neighbors. Although Harrison has lost a lot of its luster over the years, this particular stretch, with the Newport, RI style flagship Oskamp House (now a retirement community home) nearby, gives a hint of the neighborhood back in its prime.

In the 20th century, as Cincinnati's well to do flocked to ever more distant enclaves such as Indian Hill, some of the larger homes along Harrison were sub-divided up into apartments and converted to tenements. Worse, block style apartments designed with govt. subsidized rent in mind were constructed in many places along Harrison. With the influx of lower income, more transient residents, the reputation of the neighborhood quickly eroded. A few of the older mansions were demolished but some elderly residents who remembered better times stubbornly held on to others. While I think there might be some debate as to exactly how much Westwood and Harrison Avenue in particular have recovered in recent years, few would argue that it is the same as it was 5 years ago. Some of the low income apartmentsalong Harrison have been torn down in the past couple of years and pride of ownership is evident in some of the old mansions with their nicely landscaped grounds. Harrison is today a busy thoroughfare and that is perhaps a negative for some. The small enclave of grand homes where this house is located still looks "grand" but that is just the opinion of an outsider who visited there a year ago. We also found an impressive home over on Fenton Avenue, which is a side street off of Harrison. My overall impression was that this stretch of Harrison is improving slowly and may in time regain some of its former luster. It is well located and near downtown. As for the house itself, pictures tell a lot more than words. In some places, like on the West Coast, this would be a multi-million dollar home. Even compared to Gaslight Clifton, which has some similar style homes, it is priced far lower by comparison. Thanks for posting a link to one of my favorite West Side historic homes.