Perception of "Good" and "Bad" Areas (Dayton: sales, apartment)

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by t45209

And yet, I know people who live in the likes of Madisonville who have never had any problems, and frankly my one friend doesn't even have a door on his garage and nothing has ever been taken. I have neighbors who once lived on Wunder in Westwood, and never once had a problem, and now that they live in Oakley, their car got tossed.

I do believe that behind every stereotype there is some truth, but it amazes me how whether you live in Madisonville or Hyde Park, in spite of certain realities, can mean the difference of hundreds of thousands of dollars in the price of your home.

My college roommate lived in Hyde Park; her car was regularly broken into -- in her garage, no less. While over in Madisonville, in some of my more airheaded moments, I would leave my garage door open all night, or forget to lock the back door with nary a problem. Not even a pumpkin stolen from the front porch at Halloween. Once I went away for the weekend and left my back door wide open (go ahead and verbally abuse me for this ...). Between my neighbors and the cops, I was notified within hours, and the cops helped my neighbor secure my back door.

Yet when I'd tell people where I lived, looks of horror would come across their faces. Whatever.

Originally Posted by kjbrill

. In my opinion, Madisonville began to go downhill over 50 years ago and has never come close to showing signs of true recovery.

When was the last time you were in Madisonville?

[kjbrill]

I was last in Madisonville about 6 months ago. Granted it was more a drive-through as I don't know of any business, etc. which would have anything I would be looking for. The number of boarded-up storefronts and derelict business buildings on Whetsel and Madison didn't seem to have improved any since the last time I was there, other than there seemed to be a few more empty lots.

When I was young, our parents took my brother and I to a family owned shoe store in Madisonville. I remember we would also often stop at a very good produce store. There were also some specalty shops we would visit. Now this was the late 40s early 50s. But then the area seemed to change, slowly at first. During the late 50s and early 60s I drove through Madisonville consistently on my commute to UC. Later, in the 70s I worked a few years in an office building at the intersection of Bramble Ave. and Plainville Rd in Fairfax. This is when I noticed a severe degradation in Madisonville, both the business district and the residential. The infrequent occasions I have to travel through the area since then I have not seen anything to prompt me to believe wow this area has improved.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Good and bad areas.... Where are the bed bugs?

[kjbrill]

Ohiogirl81...

It is not my intent to disparage people who are desiring to resurrect Madisonville as a stable residential neighborhood. I am simply saying I don't see the result.

It is like Barbceue Reveue on Madison Rd. Am I wrong, or was not in one of its earlier (maybe first) incarnations a Frisch's Big Boy? After Frisch's gave up and moved out, how many entities did it go through. I know it is west of Madison Bowl as you go down the hill. Frankly once you get that far west I am thinking Oakley rather than Madisonville.

I remember a very good barbecue restaurant on the north side of Madison Rd, just west of the Whetsel, Madison intersection, where the old bank was located. But the locals would not support it sufficient to survive. Oakley may be making a significant comeback, but Madisonville still has a long way to go.

[BJLundy]

I enjoyed the forum when the discussion was about neighborhoods many years ago. What was where and who was whom. Crime has become tedious and over the top. It isn't just beautiful Cincinnati; it is everywhere. So let's try to refocus on the pleasant things of yesteryear.

I'll start with a memory of Zumstein Ave, where I lived when I went to Withrow. Shady tree lined streets, beautiful homes with small yards - well tended by proud home owners - safe walking anywhere. There was a butcher shop on Madison Road where I often stopped to buy fresh liver for my kitten. Also, across Edwards there was a series of stores and shops and I felt comfortable in all of them. Remember how the shops bowed out around the curve? There were two great movie theatres between Hyde Park and Oakley - The Ambassador and 20th Century. I often went to both.

I loved Withrow High School! It was a cool place to be and full of potential friends. I doubt that it has the same character today, but my memories keep it from being tarnished.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Ohiogirl81...

It is not my intent to disparage people who are desiring to resurrect Madisonville as a stable residential neighborhood. I am simply saying I don't see the result.

It is like Barbceue Reveue on Madison Rd. Am I wrong, or was not in one of its earlier (maybe first) incarnations a Frisch's Big Boy? After Frisch's gave up and moved out, how many entities did it go through. I know it is west of Madison Bowl as you go down the hill. Frankly once you get that far west I am thinking Oakley rather than Madisonville.

I remember a very good barbecue restaurant on the north side of Madison Rd, just west of the Whetsel, Madison intersection, where the old bank was located. But the locals would not support it sufficient to survive. Oakley may be making a significant comeback, but Madisonville still has a long way to go.

Location is everything for restaurants.

No one is going to drive to a mediocre restaurant just to eat at a mediocre restaurant.

There's nothing in or near Madisonville, so there's no reason for people to go there. If there would be a neighborhood cinema show, or a very nice strip mall or something that would attract people to the area, then restaurants would fare better out that way.

I lived at Clifton Colony and had my car stolen in spite of the fact there were security guards on duty (they were useless -- if they weren't sleeping they were banging one of the residents or some girl who stopped by to visit them). The youths who stole my car were from Roselawn. My car was recovered and I was only out a few $100 for repairs to the ignition.

I moved to Oaklely on Brotherton Avenue, just down from the golf course. Some kids from Madisonville stole my car and wrecked in on Bramble. Air bag deployed, windshields busted, wrapped around a telephone pole, it was totaled.

I moved back to Clifton and got robbed at gunpoint walking home from Kroger's in Corryville (since I don't have a car). Those kids were from Avondale.

Anyway, people don't crap in their own backyard. They go elsewhere, and where they go depends on where the buses run.

[Tubby513]

Yeah, I would agree that Madisonville has not / is not making big waves in the form of a recovery. When I drive down Bramble at the intersection of Whetzel...it's all nicely renovated storefronts, with no stores. Bummer. Just that shlt bar and a pony keg selling 40s and basic groceries.

Meanwhile, someone in this thread said you have to focus on certain streets and not the whole neighborhood sometimes. I feel like Arnsby is a real gem around here. I love it.

I'm not knocking Madisonville as a whole though, I think it's great. But, I would never say its making big strides in recovery. As the previous poster said, there's no reason for outsiders to ever come here. Furthermore, what would ever prompt someone looking to open a restaurant to open it here in Madisonville? I would love that, but I don't know the answer. So then, you still have it as a non-destination point within the city. The average income of residents stays very low, house prices stay low, when does recovery occur?

Anyways, in a nutshell, Madisonville is definitely one of the neighborhoods with a perception of being bad, ghetto, etc. Without glossing it over, lots of people just see it that way cuz it's 80% (?) black.

[CarpathianPeasant]

If 14+% of the people of Cincinnati have "experienced" bed bugs, I'd still like to know where they are.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Ohiogirl81...

It is not my intent to disparage people who are desiring to resurrect Madisonville as a stable residential neighborhood. I am simply saying I don't see the result.

It is like Barbceue Reveue on Madison Rd. Am I wrong, or was not in one of its earlier (maybe first) incarnations a Frisch's Big Boy? After Frisch's gave up and moved out, how many entities did it go through. I know it is west of Madison Bowl as you go down the hill. Frankly once you get that far west I am thinking Oakley rather than Madisonville.

I remember a very good barbecue restaurant on the north side of Madison Rd, just west of the Whetsel, Madison intersection, where the old bank was located. But the locals would not support it sufficient to survive. Oakley may be making a significant comeback, but Madisonville still has a long way to go.

Actually, Barbarcue Review is the only place that has been in that old Frisch's location since Frisch's left nearly 10 years ago. I'd say they must be holding their own. Frisch's must have had a good reason for closing, but my recollection is that the place was generally busy. Frisch's, though, closed a lot of locations that I used to go to, from 4th Street downtown, to the heart of Montgomery.

Where Madisonville struggles is the part that most people see frequently and that is the Madison Rd business district. For some reason, the city and the people in Madisonville think that the best way to practice urban renewal is with a wrecking ball. I have news for them, empty lots are no better than the buildings they took down that cannot be replaced.

Aside from the Deveroes (or whatever urban outfitter store that is) and a few automotive oriented businesses, nothing does last around there. Even the check cashing place couldn't make it, although state law probably played a role in that. The worst is that little creamy whip and the other little joint a few doors up. Fast food, farmer's markets, and pager retailers seem to go in and out every year or two.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by Tubby513

Yeah, I would agree that Madisonville has not / is not making big waves in the form of a recovery. When I drive down Bramble at the intersection of Whetzel...it's all nicely renovated storefronts, with no stores. Bummer. Just that shlt bar and a pony keg selling 40s and basic groceries.

Meanwhile, someone in this thread said you have to focus on certain streets and not the whole neighborhood sometimes. I feel like Arnsby is a real gem around here. I love it.

I'm not knocking Madisonville as a whole though, I think it's great. But, I would never say its making big strides in recovery. As the previous poster said, there's no reason for outsiders to ever come here. Furthermore, what would ever prompt someone looking to open a restaurant to open it here in Madisonville? I would love that, but I don't know the answer. So then, you still have it as a non-destination point within the city. The average income of residents stays very low, house prices stay low, when does recovery occur?

Anyways, in a nutshell, Madisonville is definitely one of the neighborhoods with a perception of being bad, ghetto, etc. Without glossing it over, lots of people just see it that way cuz it's 80% (?) black.

Black or not, teens in hoodies and baggy pants with nothing more to do than to stand on street corners don't do much to sell a neighborhood.

Truth be told, on balance, the residential architecture in Madisonville is so much better than Oakley. Although, unfortunately, most of them are not as well kept, especially inside, and that can be discouraging.