Are some natives in denial about Cincy being a big city? (Columbus: apartments, crime)

[Tex?Il?]

Cincinnati is my favorite midwestern city, (probably tied with Detroit - untapped potential), but I've noticed that on this forum, there seems to be some natives that talk about Cincinnati as if it were smaller, and less urban than it really is. I wonder if this projects on visitors who then go home believing Cincinnati is some cowtown.

One poster on city-data describes Cincinnati as "Boston aspiring to be Indianapolis" No offense to those in Indy, but I think I understand exactly what he is saying.

I think #1. Many natives sell it is short. and #2. in addition to big city amenities, they almost seem also in denial of big city issues.

Some of the things I've seen posted on the Cincy forum . . . I guess I just have a very different impression.


Example: People on here have sold Cincinnati on its appeal for a better place for raising a family compared to larger metro areas, without realizing that that doesn't hold much weight, as larger metro areas like Chicagoland have great suburbs for family life with big yards, etc. Granted, maybe the housing costs are a bit more, but other than that, its the same. I don't understand why someone like that doesn't emphasize about how you can enjoy cultural offerings, historic urban neighborhoods, and educational opportunities that are world class, at non-world class prices and traffic.

Anyone with two eyes can see that Cincinnati, more than any other midwestern city, yes EVEN Chicago, has neighborhoods that resemble New York neighborhoods. Sure Chicago is a much larger city, but if you were to find a neighborhood that resembles Greenwich Village, NY in the midwest, nothing in Chicago would quite cut it. Over-The-Rhine however, structurally can pass as neighborhoods in Manhattan. Although the street traffic is obviously missing in Over-the-Rhine any many more buildings are in disrepair, but nevertheless. There was even a movie set in Harlem, but filmed in Over-the-Rhine. Chicago may have a skyline that matches lower Manhattan with iconic skyscrapers, but other than that, Chicago neighborhoods are a bit more "wide".

Cincinnati has the greatest continuous stretch of urban population density of over 10,000 that includes Over-the-Rhine, Mt. Auburn, West End, and CUF. I wouldn't be suprised that until after WWII, Chicago didn't match this, as Chicagos dense areas are more post war high rises and apartments.

In addition to this cluster of neighborhoods over 10,000 pp/sqmi you have the second largest urban college campus, the best magnet high schools in the country, including the best creative and performing arts high school in the country after NY.

North of there it gets a bit more suburban in character with Clifton and North Avondale, but they are just as liberal of neighborhoods as anywhere, Clifton being a university neighborhood of international people, as North Avondale, with a history of racial integration.

A fully gentrified neighborhood adjacent to downtown (a downtown that has one of the largest clusters of fortune 500 companies in the country), where P&Gers sip cocktails in a neighborhood that is the closest urban midwest neighborhood to San Francisco (Mt. Adams originated as a vineyard growing area).

And yet, people want to sell the Cincinnati area as a good place to raise kids with a home and a yard.

On the flipside, many on this site, see to think that Cincinnati doesn't have crime problems the way larger cities have.

Despite all the good things I mentioned, Cincinnati does have actual crime that is found in any big city. Yet posters here have acted like Cincinnati is like a small town when looking at crime. The fact that OTR north of Liberty was cited as among the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country, and there are other neighborhoods like Avondale, maybe Bond Hill or Walnut Hills where there are shootings, etc., I don't think makes Cincy anything less, but the reality is that it is there, as it is a big city!

Heck, I think because the cool areas are in many cases close to ghetto areas, I think inner city Cincinnatians can probably easily claim to be more street smart than Chicagoans, as Chicago has an insulated swath of north-side neighborhoods insulated and isolated from the swaths or war zone on the west and south side.

So, do some natives, prefer to think of Cincinnati as being a small town, even though it has both the good and bad of cities quite a bit bigger?

[austiNati]

What you said was pretty much spot on. Alot of folks from this area have the small-town/country vibe to them, and it can be seen based on the metro areas growth patterns. A healthy amount of Cincinnati's workforce come from small-town/rural areas, and don't mind commuting 90 mins every day to and from work. I remember a guy at work, who lived in Georgetown, Ohio, mind you I worked in Blue Ash at the time. I'd ask him, "Why don't you move into the city, or at least Hamilton county? there's plenty of space here, and it ain't expensive." He really didn't have any answer, and came to acknowledge that Georgetown is boring as hell.

At the same time, I know a lot of people who are very much urban-dwellers, and prefer Cincy's urban fabric, many are around my age in their mid-twenties. More and more, Hamilton County is beginning to become a truly urban county, not some rural backwoods area that just so happens to have a city in it, as the County Fair would suggest. (Maybe the dwindling attendance is a testament to that).

[ram2]

Columbus is the cowtown, not Cincinnati.

[wrightflyer]

Yes, yes, and sort of yes and no.

Columbus, it has improved over the last 10-15 years. Not Cincinnati, but not the Columbus of old.

[Matthew Hall]

It's a culture thing. My grandmother lived in Miami in the 1980s and 1990s. She complained about all the cuban refugees moving into her neighborhood. Then, almost in the same breath she complained that "no one" was moving to Miami anymore. She was totally blind the inherent contradictions in what she was saying. The Cincinnatians you have met are complaining because there aren't people 'like them' in Cincinnati, not because it doesn't offer economic or cultural opportunities. We often overestimate the power of economics and underestimate the value of culture. They want to be with people like them, even if it means forgoing economic opportunities. The power of culture can blind people to their own experiences in amazing ways. It is all the more amazing because Cincinnati is building on its artistic and institutional advantages in ways that haven't been happening in decades. Still, many people will not be able to participate in it for purely social and psychological reasons, not economic ones.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by ram2

Columbus is the cowtown, not Cincinnati.

Aren't you from Michigan?

[13th Alphabet]

Tex, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

AustiNati, I work with a woman who lives way out in Clinton County, and another who lives in Bright, Indiana, and both of them refuse to move closer to our place of employment. I find it unfathomable, but some people have no problem commuting over an hour to work. Anything more than 20 minutes, and I'm complaining.

It tends to irk me that many Cinci natives think of their city as some inferior city or small town. I constantly hear people who've been here all their lives complain about how much the city "sucks" and that they can't wait to move.

Tex,you also brought up another thing that I hate; that many Cincinnatians sell the city as a great place to raise kids. A lot of people in my age range (mid 20s) equate that to being a bland, boring, sterile place, which Cinci is not. Claiming Cincinnati is a great place to raise kids is a bit misleading IMO. When speaking of the suburbs, yes, most of them are great for raising kids, but the same can be said for a lot of suburbs of any major city. I also find it funny when people claim Cincinnati is a family friendly place, and then when someone with school aged children asks for recommendations for places to live, a suburb is usually recommended.

Cincinnati IS a big city, but many of the natives tend to paint Cinci as a small town, and bear the mindset of such. This city has so much potential that a lot of cities would love to have, but the small town mentality is what hinders progress around here. Other cities have a lot less than Cincinnati, but tend to do so much more. It gets frustrating sometimes.

[unusualfire]

People have a problem with transitioning. They think with the higher population we have now, crime should be the same as it was 3 decades ago, which is not the case. People are slow to adapt here. I don't know if a lot of people are in denial or what.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Aren't you from Michigan?

I used to live in Anderson Township.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by Wahl_Wrighter

...Tex,you also brought up another thing that I hate; that many Cincinnatians sell the city as a great place to raise kids. A lot of people in my age range (mid 20s) equate that to being a bland, boring, sterile place, which Cinci is not. Claiming Cincinnati is a great place to raise kids is a bit misleading IMO. When speaking of the suburbs, yes, most of them are great for raising kids, but the same can be said for a lot of suburbs of any major city. I also find it funny when people claim Cincinnati is a family friendly place, and then when someone with school aged children asks for recommendations for places to live, a suburb is usually recommended...

I think that's a shame, and of course it's the worst kind of misconception, based I guess on stereotyping and ignorance. You might not be able to find many parents who want to raise their kids in OTR, but of course there ARE many who realize chldren can still benefit enormously from living in a large metro area. Parents who view a great place to raise kids as one that has options like SCPA, Fairview, or the Waldorf School. Arts opportunities like Cincinnati Boy Choir or May Festival Youth Chorus. Exposure to a professional-class ballet company. I'm sure similar specialized educational opportunities exist in the other arts and other fields of study that I'm not as familiar with.

Your posting generated a response from me because my parents came from a small, economically depressed city in Appalachia when I was a year old, specifically so I could have the educational opportunities and exposure a big city offers. They both had grown up on farms and were used to quiet and lots of space--which led them to eventually establish a home far out in rural Colerain Township. That meant a long commute to work and a lot of activities, but apparently they decided it was worth it.

You might consider asking your friends to re-examine their notions of just what kind of people live in the suburbs.