Is Cincinnati stuck in a rut, or is it really turning around? (Findlay: how much, neighborhood)

[progmac]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Not really. There are those among the poor, just like any other section of society, that are guilty of taking advantage. It's naive to think otherwise.

true. but that isn't what he said. that anyone can rush to defend unusualfire's absurd statement out of some high spirit relating to the changes in OTR is shocking.

in case it isn't clear, my comments are related to this statement

^ I think we have been so nice to the poor for decades, they are taking advantage now.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

It's not at the critical mass to be as noticeable as what 3CDC is doing. There might be building here and there but the place still has the look and feel of an inner city ghetto (thinking of my walks on Vine and Mickmicken)

@@@



Thanks for the clarification...I thought they had something to do with the some of that 4th street residential stuff like the McAlpin lofts....but I stand corrected if not.

Well, there are spots of ghetto still intact all over OTR and Pendleton. I don't know if it will ever totally not be that way. North of Liberty has a lot of buildings that have been purchased or adopted. At some point it will show more and more how much is happening there. I also wouldn't be surprised to see 3CDC head north of Liberty either. I think they will find that demand is still robust.

Someone please correct me if I am mistaken, but hasn't 3CDC recently purchased buildings NOL?

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by progmac

it was an unnecessarily inflammatory choice of words on my part. i modified my post above.

Ya, I could have done better too. I deleted my post. My apologies.

[Joeytraveler]

I can't think of anything new NOL that 3cdc has acquired. The projects they have been involved in NOL were not market rate, is north Rhine heights. It will be interesting to see what happens first development of the major streets NOL vs filling in the blanks of the cross streets, which all have there issues a in spots. Hopefully we get a little of both. The Columbia building being bought at 13th and walnut is a big deal.

[unusualfire]

I don't want to inflame people but it's the main reason why most cities are stuck in the rut. If more people stay in school and get educated. The less problems we will see in society. Yes i know some people have no options, however they are all given tools to succeed. Im not suggesting taking away all the tools. Their just needs to be a better way to stop people that been on the system for decades. Im no just talking inner city people. Rural people as well. Im black and i have seen what dependency does to a person. It just gives them an incentive not to change.

[jmecklenborg]

>One way of measuring this is by household.

Correct, household sizes are shrinking due to fewer children and more divorced people living alone. But at the same time during the recession there people have moved in with relatives or roommates to save money. If everyone that is currently living alone got a roommate, obviously there would be tons of vacant buildings around the city without the population actually changing.

As for poor people being pushed from neighborhood to neighborhood, it really doesn't matter -- they're still going to be poor because being poor is as much a state of mind as it is an economic condition. Same as being raised in the middle or upper classes. As a child you absorb ways of thinking that other classes do not and they are very difficult to obscure or break from.

Some can and do of course, sort of like how some people are able to immigrate to the US and integrate nearly completely and nearly lose their accent whereas others live here for 20 years and still speak with broken English. The ability to adapt and succeed in a culture different than the one you were raised in is an extremely rare ability, and changing class within the US is perhaps even more of a jump than moving from a middle class existance overseas to a middle class life here.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

As for poor people being pushed from neighborhood to neighborhood, it really doesn't matter

Of course it does. Low-income people build connections and communities the same as anyone else. Being shoved from neighborhood to neighborhood is the same as being told you're not wanted; you don't matter.

To be told that you're no longer welcome in the neighborhood you've been living in for dozens of years isn't going to go a very long way in encouraging the poor to build better lives for themselves.

The intolerance and apathy in this thread is truly heartbreaking.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Of course it does. Low-income people build connections and communities the same as anyone else. Being shoved from neighborhood to neighborhood is the same as being told you're not wanted; you don't matter.

To be told that you're no longer welcome in the neighborhood you've been living in for dozens of years isn't going to go a very long way in encouraging the poor to build better lives for themselves.

The intolerance and apathy in this thread is truly heartbreaking.

But people aren't being pushed out of OTR by 3CDC. Unless someone can quantify and enlighten me on how this is happening and who is doing it, then it's an erroneous assumption.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

I don't want to inflame people but it's the main reason why most cities are stuck in the rut. If more people stay in school and get educated. The less problems we will see in society. Yes i know some people have no options, however they are all given tools to succeed. Im not suggesting taking away all the tools. Their just needs to be a better way to stop people that been on the system for decades. Im no just talking inner city people. Rural people as well. Im black and i have seen what dependency does to a person. It just gives them an incentive not to change.

I don't think the theory of benevolent neglect (i think I just coined that term, maybe) has been shown to be particularly successful. But, America is different and there really is a crapload of opportunity here. African immigrants are the most successful group of immigrants, they are more successful than the asians and others who have sort of a model minority thing going on. So it certainly isn't skin color per se, not any more.

We do need to think about what is a right and what is a privilege. Is health care a right? Is housing a right? Is food a right? I'm not sure of the answers. But we need to start addressing these things up front.

Now back to the cities. Our cities aren't wrecked because poor people took advantage of government programs or because poor people stayed. They are like they are because the middle class people left. People who could afford to take care of their properties, invest in businesses, etc. So to rebuild the cities, maybe we need to bring middle class people back. And yes, we need to help more poor people work their way up to a middle class or at least working standard.

But to blame OTR's problems on the poor people that live(d) there? I just don't get that.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by progmac

But to blame OTR's problems on the poor people that live(d) there? I just don't get that.

Well, if we are talking the former high crime rate, then I would have to lay that at the feet of the criminal element of the poor. And it's not that I am not empathetic. I understand full well where the underground economy fits in. Note: I did not say sympathetic. Hardened criminals deserve the law.