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My wife has a job opportunity in Cincinnati, so I'm doing my initial research on neighborhoods and suburbs. This board has been one of many invaluable resources for collecting information. North Avondale is the neighborhood that really has caught my attention, but as a suburbanite in the Memphis area, I'm comparing to Cincinnati suburbs.
-Where is you current location and environment? We currently live in the Suburbs of Memphis, TN. I work from a home office, so I can be anywhere. My wife commutes 14 miles, which is typically 20-25 minutes downtown. We have a 4 year old son (pre-k this fall, and kindergarten in the fall of 2014), and a daughter on the way in September.
-Are you looking for similar in Cincinnati or a change? We are torn between the suburbs vs an older home with more personality.
-Where will your work location be? Cincinnati Children's Hospital and University of Cincinnati Pharmacy School
-Maximum commute time desired?
Less is better. Snow commutes worry me the most. Less than 25 minutes is best. We might have to sacrifice this for other things.
-What is you budget for housing? Around 500k.
-Rent or buy? Buy
-Type (Apt., Condo, Single Family)
Single Family
-Size (Approx-Sq-Ft., # Bedrooms & Baths) 5+ BR (2 for kids, 1 for office, 1 guest room for family to visit), 3+ Bath, prefer 5000+sqft, don't want to go under 4000.
-Other specifics? 3 car garage prefered. Some yard prefered-Prefer shorter commute to Children's Hospital. Prefer houses with personality, but will not take that over other needs like schools.
-Neighborhood environment?
-Urban, young professional, nightlife Not important.
-Mid-urban, close in neighborhood or suburb, stable investment I see the North Avondale option fitting here.
-Suburban, low maintenance, quiet streets, soccer mom atmosphere
-Family oriented
-Lots of same age kids, activities
-Great schools Those are all good features, and matches what we have now.
-Older, distinctive architecture, individual character I really like the idea of this...at least in theory- Maintenance costs worry me. Potential restrictions on add-ons or renovations worry me. Utilities worry me. Lack of built in "modern conveniences" worries me. If I can take an old house and upgrade it to my hearts content, this would likely be my ideal home. I just don't know how feasible that is, having only owned newer homes which are much easier to upgrade.
-Modern, 15 yrs old or less, move-in ready Obviously, you lose a lot of personality with this, but our current home was bought from a builder (where we got to "customize") in 2006 and we love a lot of the modern features. Open floor plans, higher grade windows, zone control for heating and AC, lots of kitchen space, and of course my jetted tub, will all be things I'll miss when moving from this house.
-Diversity of income, race, housing? I actually prefer less diversity of income and housing- Race not a factor.
-Yard - none, small, large (1/2 acre or more) This won't likely be one of the determining factors, although none would be hard to live with- Large > Small, but the house itself is more important than the yard in most cases. With that said, I've definately seen yards and outside amenities in some listings that put those houses above others.
-Very safe, low crime area? Huge factor.
-Can tolerate some degree of crime potential? How Much? Getting robbed once a year instead of twice? No, that doesn't sound very tolerable. This is one of my main concerns looking at North Avondale. Seems crime is still a big factor there. I'm wondering if monitored security systems help? Where I live now, every house has one in our neighborhood, and we have no crime.
-Private neighborhood association, swimming & fitness facilities I'm actually not a fan of neighborhood associations. However, I can live with it. If it includes swimming and fitness, that is a definite plus.
-Schools? Pre-K and Elementary schools will be our biggest concerns over the next half decade or so.
-High Ranked Public schools This is important to us, and its the biggest draw for the suburbs. Even many of the city schools I hear touted by many seem to be "average" rated schools. So I'm worried about having to jump through hoops and fight to get my kids in an average school and keep them out of the awful schools. Suburbs (Mason, Blue Ash, or Montgomery are the ones I've been researching) seem to have far superior schools as the default.
-Small or large district? Small is generally better (once again, pointing to the suburbs), but I'm more worried about the individual school than the whole district.
-Diverse student body? Not a priority, but not a deterrent.
-Strong athletics? A plus, but not a priority.
-Consider Private schools? My son is currently in a private school (prek-12 school) in Memphis. The Memphis school district is WORSE than Cincinnati schools, and now with county schools forcibly being combined with Memphis city schools, this area doesn't have the ability to just go to the suburbs for better schools anymore. We made the decision to lock in our son's spot in private school early to ensure he got a good education. However, we will definately be behind the 8-ball in the Cincinnati area when it comes to private schools, since additional the state and local taxes we'll be paying there will cost about what we were paying for private school here.
-Special considerations? A good preschool nearby will be a plus.
-Community amenities? Preferred
-Daily needs within walking distance, shopping, restaurants, parks, etc. Preferred
-Town/city community center for adults & kids Preferred
-Swimming, fitness center, running track, adult activities Preferred
-Close promity to public transportation? Preferred
-Lots of parks & youth athletic leagues Preferred
-Jogging & biking trails Preferred.
So now that we have some background...
I'm very torn between housing in North Avendale when comparing with the suburbs.
When looking at North Avendale...
Pros: -Commutes
-Short commute to both the Children's Hospital and Pharmacy School
-Likely ability to walk/bus to school, or at least short commute
-Closer to attractions like the zoo, stadiums, etc. -Housing
-Some beautiful older houses in our price range, with features you can't get in new houses
-More square footage than similar priced suburbs in many cases
-Not cookie cutter lots and houses in a row
Cons: -Schools
-Although "good" schools are nearby, they still don't compare with suburb schools (at least according to GreatSchools)
-The "good" school is a magnet, so not guaranteed to get it even though it's close by
-I'm not sure about how I feel about Montesorri, and both the magnet school and private school nearby are Montesorri
-Our "private school" fund for Memphis turns into income taxes in Cincinnati. So private school is less of an option. -Neighborhood
-Business Ditrict seems to have fallen apart.
-Crime spills over from Avondale (burglaries and even attacks)
-Although there are many houses in good condition, there are many others in need of restoration, or possibly going to be torn down.
-Not sure how I feel about the neighborhood association
-Via the internet, it's really difficult to get a feel for this neighborhood. Seems to be a Jekyl and Hyde vibe. -House
-Not sure how expensive and difficult (paperwork wise) it is to upgrade. (How limited will we be? Can we add a garage? Can we upgrade to modern kitchens and baths?)
-Worried about additional costs for maintenance and utilities in an older house, especially if it's marked historic.
-Concerned about hidden (or even not so hidden) problems that often come with older houses, where restoration and fixes are needed up front. -Taxes
-Ohio income taxes already are a big negative to me. Additional city taxes just make it worse. My wife will already have to pay city taxes for working in the city. However, with me working virtually, where I put my house determines my income tax rate.
-Property taxes also seem to hurt more in the city than outside of it, and taxes to the city seem more likely to be spent on things that won't positively affect my life or neighborhood. They are more concerned with putting money elsewhere.
I'm afraid I'm going to set off another city vs suburb conflict, which is not want I want here.
Are their pros and cons I'm off base with?
Are their big pros or cons I'm missing?
Are there other neighborhoods that keep the pros but reduce some of the cons?
Obviously, my list leans towards the suburbs right now, but the bigger and more unique houses, in addition to getting rid of my wife's commute times are pretty big pros, which is why we are still waffling.
Cutting down on commuting time should allow more time and money to deal with an older house, which you say you're interested in upgrading to your tastes. So that seems to be a serendipitous combination.
Being that one of you is a student, it might be easier to go the magnet school route than otherwise. No one has to call off work to wait in line. I'd suggest expanding your view to the whole district, and not just the nearby schools, especially since you're not very keen on Montessori. The main advantage CPS has over the suburbs is the large variety of different kinds of schools available, so you should keep that in mind when weighing your options. Certainly, location is a factor, which might include looking into how the CPS busing system works. Another major advantage CPS has to the suburbs is having the top public middle/high school in the state, Walnut Hills, which is not far from North Avondale. But that is obviously not a huge concern for you, with a pre-k child.
Sounds to me like you should choose the far out suburbs and deal with the commute. I don't think CPS magnet schools would fit the bill, because obviously they require varying degrees of effort to enroll. Best of luck.
If you do go the suburban route, you do not need to go to the exurbs. I think you would be very happy in the Sycamore, Mariemont, and Wyoming school districts. I especially recommend the Sycamore school district for tax purposes.
If you do go the suburban route, you do not need to go to the exurbs. I think you would be very happy in the Sycamore, Mariemont, and Wyoming school districts. I especially recommend the Sycamore school district for tax purposes.
We did the reverse search a few years ago when we thought we were headed to Memphis (International Paper). G'town/Colliersville are very similar to Blue Ash, Sycamore & Montgomery.
Have you looked at East Walnut Hills? It's housing stock is similar to North Avondale but it is significantly closer to grocery stores, shopping and many more ammenities. The drive time to Children's is almost the same. You are still in Cincinnati Public Schools but there are many choices of private schools in the area.
Cutting down on commuting time should allow more time and money to deal with an older house, which you say you're interested in upgrading to your tastes. So that seems to be a serendipitous combination.
Being that one of you is a student, it might be easier to go the magnet school route than otherwise. No one has to call off work to wait in line. I'd suggest expanding your view to the whole district, and not just the nearby schools, especially since you're not very keen on Montessori. The main advantage CPS has over the suburbs is the large variety of different kinds of schools available, so you should keep that in mind when weighing your options. Certainly, location is a factor, which might include looking into how the CPS busing system works. Another major advantage CPS has to the suburbs is having the top public middle/high school in the state, Walnut Hills, which is not far from North Avondale. But that is obviously not a huge concern for you, with a pre-k child.
Actually, one clarification. My wife will be up their to teach and for research, not as a student.
The gas budget would definitely go way down from where we are now. (Although I work from home, my son's private school is 20-30 minutes away, so I have almost an hour round trip every morning.)
My biggest worry about expanding the school search is it starts to defeat the "no/low commute" pro. Proximity to Walnut Hills was definitely a long term plus, but for the short term, elementary is the biggest concern. I do wonder how much better Walnut Hills is vs Suburban schools though. On a 10 scale, it's a 10, which puts if far above all the 1-3 rated schools around it, but when some suburbs have all 8-10 rated schools, I wouldn't expect to see a big difference there. I definitely took note of where it was though, since I've heard nothing but good things about it in my research.
We did the reverse search a few years ago when we thought we were headed to Memphis (International Paper). G'town/Colliersville are very similar to Blue Ash, Sycamore & Montgomery.
Have you looked at East Walnut Hills? It's housing stock is similar to North Avondale but it is significantly closer to grocery stores, shopping and many more ammenities. The drive time to Children's is almost the same. You are still in Cincinnati Public Schools but there are many choices of private schools in the area.
Not a neighborhood I have seen come up much, but I'll definitely give it a look.
My husband and I looked very seriously at two houses in North Avondale when we moved here 13 years ago. He was fine with the relative proximity to some very poor and crime-ridden neighborhoods, I was not. Especially in the case of a big old rambling house tucked back into a secluded location. The other house concerned us both because there were run-down or running-down properties on the street, which we feared could affect our investment long-term. Still, the beauty of much of the architecture is unparalleled, and I know people who've been in the area for years and love it.
I would steer you more toward the already-mentioned areas of Wyoming or Blue Ash. Unless the short commute and beautiful old house charm override everything else.
Not a neighborhood I have seen come up much, but I'll definitely give it a look.
E. Walnut Hills may not meet your criteria for safety as well as North Avondale would.
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