Champagne taste, beer budget :( (Cincinnati, Hamilton: for sale, apartment, renting)

[peanut33]

The business district in Pleasant Ridge is on Montgomery, right? I remember driving through there when we first moved to Cincinnati and thinking it looked....not horrible but not that great either. Seemed kind of run down.

It does look like we would get a lot more for our money in Pleasant Ridge, but I really don't want to live somewhere that is so street-by-street. Kind of the way Oakley is being discussed here as well. I like to go for runs and walk my dog and don't really want to live somewhere where one street is nice, the next not so great, two over is okay, etc. It seems like my only hope is the burbs....with Madiera being the closest.

[Joeytraveler]

Just my opinion but you'll see runners all over town in places they would never want to live and I wouldn't be to worried about it, unless you're planning lots of late night/ midnight runs.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by peanut33

The business district in Pleasant Ridge is on Montgomery, right? I remember driving through there when we first moved to Cincinnati and thinking it looked....not horrible but not that great either. Seemed kind of run down.

It does look like we would get a lot more for our money in Pleasant Ridge, but I really don't want to live somewhere that is so street-by-street. Kind of the way Oakley is being discussed here as well. I like to go for runs and walk my dog and don't really want to live somewhere where one street is nice, the next not so great, two over is okay, etc. It seems like my only hope is the burbs....with Madiera being the closest.

Oakley is not street by street. There are a couple of corners, like Robertson and Brownway, or Cardiff Avenue that are a bit shady, but there is nothing else in Oakley that should be avoided. You are really overreacting if you think you have to go to Madiera to be safe.

P Ridge, has more extremes than Oakley, and while there are a couple of nice places in the business district there, it can't hold a candle to what is available in Oakley. Oakley is the most walkable neighborhood in Cincinnati, no question.

Madiera is an upscale version of Blue Ash. More charm than Blue Ash, and comparable schools. Less walkable than Oakley, and probably more expensive, too.

[Briolat21]

For people who are not used to Cincinnati, the area can seem sketchy on a street-by-street basis. As someone who was used to entire neighborhoods or suburbs being "good" or "bad" - it was strange for me when I moved here to be told "this area's okay up to X, but then you have to be careful". That's not typical in all other cities, so its not something a outsider is going to necessarily be able to adjust to.

Also, some of the city areas that people on this board see as "European, Charming, Dense, Character filled", others see as "shabby, blighted, transitional".

Which is to say, city living isn't always for everyone.

OP - whether you choose the city or the 'burbs, your budget is a reasonable one and you should be able to find some place you feel comfortable.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by peanut33

The business district in Pleasant Ridge is on Montgomery, right? I remember driving through there when we first moved to Cincinnati and thinking it looked....not horrible but not that great either. Seemed kind of run down.

It does look like we would get a lot more for our money in Pleasant Ridge, but I really don't want to live somewhere that is so street-by-street. Kind of the way Oakley is being discussed here as well. I like to go for runs and walk my dog and don't really want to live somewhere where one street is nice, the next not so great, two over is okay, etc. It seems like my only hope is the burbs....with Madiera being the closest.

The business district (at montgomery and ridge) is kind of run down. That is a fair assessment. The general appeal of pleasant ridge is that it is middle class, mixed, close to everything, generally walkable, and affordable. The flip side is that there is higher crime and it is in general more run down than places like Hyde Park.

Madeira gives you the low crime and good general proximity, but takes away walkability (at least in the 200k price range), has a terrible housing stock, and is probably no less expensive than Oakley. Although certainly Oakley is going to continue going up in price since it (finally) has all the attributes most sought after in any real estate market. Blue Ash is the same deal as Madeira, but with a better housing stock and slightly worse location. Personally I think Blue Ash is preferable to Madeira.

You have to figure out where you will compromise and where you will not. You can never have it all, regardless of budget.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

I think a lot of people think Blue Ash is all expensive housing, but the older parts have some pretty modest homes here and there.

I think one of the tradeoffs you often get with Blue Ash vs. a city neighborhood is a slightly larger yard with the same size house.

Originally Posted by t45209

Hyde Park is the new neighborhood school for much of Oakley. Some still get to go to Kilgour, but thankfully the JP Parker days are nearly over.

Could we all please stop denigrating Parker Elementary and the children that attend that school? Thank you.

Originally Posted by progmac

Madeira gives you the low crime and good general proximity, but takes away walkability (at least in the 200k price range), has a terrible housing stockt

Terrible housing stock? Brick cape cods and ranch houses? OK ... whatever ...

[kjbrill]

I would hardly call Madeira an upscale version of Blue Ash.

You have to break Madeira down into sections, mainly according to when built.

I refer to the pre-WWII portion of town, which encompases most of the downtown even today as the original Madeira. This was a square grid street layout for the most part of small 50'x150' lots and equally small houses built over a period of time. That portion of town is very walkable. It was bounded by Euclid on the north and Camargo on the south Rds which intersect at an angle and form a triangle. To the west is the square grid pattern running up the hill from Miami between Euclid and Southside. This is where I grew up on the most western street of the originals, Mayfield Ave, into which everything else terminated. Of course there were a scattering of homes along Miami Ave which runs north/south through the center of town which have to be included in this mix. One thing is sure, it was not built as a single subdivision so there are a variety of designs.

My parents house was built in 1948 on a still vacant lot by a builder friend of my father. It was a well-built home, meaning stick construction, actual floor and roof joists, tongue-and-groove sheathing on the roof, brick veneer on a cinder block backing walls, furred out and plastered. The place will probably still be standing when my current home is on the ground.

The first major expansion of Madeira post-WWII came in two guises:

(1) was north of Euclid, east of Miami, and extended to the indian Hill border. This was definitely a subdivision development, and not a good one. Cheap-ass 6-room cape cods. When I say cheap, I mean cheap. In most of them, at 6'4" I could not even stand up in the 2nd floor except in the very center of the room. I will not mention the name of the builder/developer for the fear of being sued for libel, but I do know they built several other developments around Cincinnati over the years just as deplorable. Remember, this is the northeast portion of Madeira, avoid it like the plague.

(2) was north of Euclid, west of Miami, and extended to Hosbrook Rd which was the then boundary of Madeira. This was not a single subdivision development. The developer acquired the property and produced the infrastructure, such as roads, sewer, water, etc. He then sold off the building lots to other builders. I cannot remember all of the streets, but names like North and South Mingo, North and South Timberlane, come to mind. The majority, for the times, were ranch houses on lots which supported the same. Remember, this is the northwest portion of the original City. I contend this is the portion of Madeira where the executives to operate GE Evendale first bought and were instrumental in making Madeira Schools what they still are today. I am sure those homes which have been updated demand a rediculous price.

The second major expansion of Madeira was when they annexed a large portion of what was called Kenwood. I am not sure how that happened, but I can guess. Kenwood has always been a more upscale location. Just take a look at the Kenwood Country Club. If Kenwood was faced with being associated with Silverton on one boundary, Madisonville on another, or Madeira on their third, it was a no contest. The homes in the former Kenwood portion of Madeira have to be what gives this upscale image.

So if you consider any property in Madeira, do not view it as one space. It has drown up as several spaces, and they don't all warrant the same value, though real estate aqents will tell you otherwise.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Could we all please stop denigrating Parker Elementary and the children that attend that school? Thank you. ...

It was certainly not my intention to denigrate children. But I'm going to stand by my contention that saying to a prospective buyer "if you buy this house, your kids will get to attend John Parker" may very well not be a selling point. Especially as compared to Hyde Park or Kilgore. That's just reality, and is specific to one of the considerations mentioned by the OP.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Terrible housing stock? Brick cape cods and ranch houses? OK ... whatever ...

I should probably give it a second look. When I think madeira, i think 7 foot ceilings, that weird plasterboard, and other trademarks of early production housing. Sort of too old to be practical and too new to be charming.

[peanut33]

@Briolat21 - Exactly! Perhaps if I were from Cincinnati and really knew the areas well I wouldn't be so hesitant. Not knowing the area THAT well makes BUYING (commitment) in one of these neighborhoods seem risky. I think that's why I like Hyde Park/Mt Lookout because it doesn't seem to be so much that way. I guess you pay for that though. I do understand that a lot of the areas I don't necessarily feel comfortable with are likely perfectly safe, but at the end of the day I'm the one who has to live there. It seems like I'm just probably going to have to sacrifice on the commute and character and city living to get something I can afford where I feel comfortable. I just hope I don't have to go TOO far out for something in the $200k range, especially given that I'm willing to sacrifice space.

@progmac - I agree about the housing stock in Madeira generally. Although the area provides a good commute and has great schools, there isn't much there that is my taste.

@kjbrill - Thank you so much for the explanation of how Madeira developed. I have noticed that a lot of the more affordable homes are in the NE side of town but those really aren't my taste (and it sounds like not the best buy). The original Madeira you mentioned does seem nicer and has more sidewalks, but am I the only one who things that it's odd that there are random new craftsman style homes mixed into the neighborhood? I love craftsman style homes, but they seem out of place there to me.

Thanks everyone!