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I grew up when McDonalds was spreading throughout the country. The burgers and fries were really hot and tasty in the "good 'ol days." It was a real treat to go to a McDonalds back then. Now, the burgers are slapped together in a haphazard fashion and are so small you can barely find them. The fries still aren't bad, if they're nice and hot, but I believe McDonalds used to use beef tallow in their fry oil which gave them a great taste. Of course, the food police persuaded a change with that approach.
Burger King's Whopper is good and I like the condiments they provide on the Whopper. Unfortunately, the Burger Kings in my area are old and getting pretty ragged looking. They don't look to be very clean, so I rarely have a Whopper any more.
Five Guys? They're becoming as prevalent as Starbucks. Personally, I find Five Guys overpriced. The hamburger is OK and the skin-on fries are good but I'd rather pay less and get a smaller serving. I can't help but wonder if Five Guys is overextending itself.
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A few thoughts:
"Quality" in mass fast food is probably oxymoronic today. The MBAs would never allow unnecessary money to be spent on pure overhead, IE, the actual product. The only criteria used in mass market food quality today is what is the least that can be spent while not driving away most of the customers.
So the "real quality" at the national level is only going to be found in the profusion of new burger chains like 5 Guys that Brill is protesting.
It's just a matter of economics. You have to have a product positioned as "elite" in order to charge enough to be able to put good stuff into it. Literally you get what you pay for. I believe there is actually a huge hunger for decent quality fast food - it's an entirely different tier of product than BK/McD/White Castle/Arby's. But the ability and willingness to pay for that quality is not a mass market. It's currently kind of a niche market.
And, bring back Burger Chef, as in free standing restaurants. That would be the ultimate boomer nostalgia bid. The trademark is currently owned by Hardee's, a mecca of mediocrity.
The profusion of so-called elite burger joints eludes me.
I have been to Five Guys exactly once. Saw one open near me and stopped in one afternoon. My wife and her caregiver were out someplace else and I was by myself. Did get a huge mound of skin-on french fries, more than I wanted to eat at one sitting. The interior of the store was lined with sacks of potatoes so it was easy to see they are set up to mass produce them. The burger itself was a mound of ground beef thrown on a grill and mashed down with a spatula, apparently intended to give it a more homemade look rather than a formed patty. I felt the burger was greasy, perhaps because the grill persons were not educated to scrape the grill between burgers.
Overall, I will take a Quatman's Cafe cheeseburger any day.
I have been in our local Culvers exactly twice. The first time was when they first opened and had fish sandwiches advertised on their front sign. We like fish sandwiches so I stopped and got a couple to go. Was so underwhelmed by the product haven't been back until two weeks ago. The wife had asked I stop and bring home something for dinner. Since our local BW3 has become less and less reliable for anything edible, decided to give Culvers another whirl. Just under $10 for two cheesebuger deluxe butterburgers. Again, totally underwhelmed, should have driven to the other side of town and got two baconators at Wendy's. Am relatively sure would have been more satisfied.
I have never been to our local Red Robin. First experienced them out in Seattle where I believe they originated. I thought they were overpriced then for the product delivered and still feel that way, enough so I will not even try the local store.
We do now have an Old Pail of Nails Pub here in Mason. They are admittedly a strip center bar. Have learned quickly their specialty is fried fish, mainly cod. Their fish & chips is delightful. Will now be where I go to bring fish home.
I feel the exclamation that fast food quality is poor is not correct. My opinion is it is not the food, but the preparation which is lacking. I still go from time to time to our local Burger King, as I like the Whopper. But I make no bones telling them I want to see those patties go into the boiler and come out the other end and I will not pay until I confirm they are prepared fresh. They object and I say fine, goodbye. Oh Sir, wait we can do that.
People need to learn to be more demanding. If they attempt to anticipate the customer volume and guess wrong, make them pay, not you. But this idea the elite places are the only ones capable of delivering you a good product I just do not accept. In fact their food cost control and other labor factors put them in an even more vulnerable position. The Big Guys are in the position to deliver the best value for the dollar. They simply have to manage it better, and not lose good employees over penny ante situations.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill
The profusion of so-called elite burger joints eludes me.
I have been to Five Guys exactly once.
...
Overall, I will take a Quatman's Cafe cheeseburger any day.
...Culvers...Red Robin...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill
We do now have an Old Pail of Nails Pub here in Mason. They are admittedly a strip center bar. Have learned quickly their specialty is fried fish, mainly cod. Their fish & chips is delightful. Will now be where I go to bring fish home.
I feel the exclamation that fast food quality is poor is not correct. My opinion is it is not the food, but the preparation which is lacking. I still go from time to time to our local Burger King, as I like the Whopper. But I make no bones telling them I want to see those patties go into the boiler and come out the other end and I will not pay until I confirm they are prepared fresh. They object and I say fine, goodbye. Oh Sir, wait we can do that.
You've named four different levels of restaurant, business model wise. It's an apples and oranges comparison IMO. Different business models.
Quatman's is an example of a locally owned micro-chain (may as well be just one location.) Both this one and the Norwood location are probably very tightly managed - staffed procedures and policies set, etc. by local owners. Almost no money goes into marketing and all of their effort is about the product. Cheapest prices for value, IE, the best value to be found is here.
Old Bag of Nails (and its companion also from Columbus down the road in Mason, Rusty Bucket) are examples of small regional chains. They market some, not as much as national chains, and they are not addicted to franchising their names. They are mostly about the product but some locations can vary widely. More expensive than strictly locals. Food is almost at the level of the better strictly local places.
Culvers/5 Guys/Red Robin et al are high quality, niche, franchised national chains. Lots of marketing, lots of money spent on new locations and corporate overhead, more mouths to feed like MBAs and back office drones. They strive to produce a moderately priced product of as high quality as possible.
BK/Taco Bell/Arby's/whatever - franchised national chains with variable quality. They are all about the marketing and keeping aggregate numbers across the chain profitable.
Your anecdote about BK was really good... I'll keep that in mind if I don't like the food someplace.
I want to simply say that you can reasonably expect only certain things out of each tier/type of joint.
It's unreasonable to say that there is no room for 5 Guys. Obviously you're incorrect on that aspect because they are quite successful, and they have huge fan followings. I would deliberately go to a 5 Guys in a different city because they are much better than McD and their quality is consistent.
How about an analogy? Mom and pop places like Quatman's are like home brewing your own beer. Micro-chains like Rusty Bucket/Olde Bucket o'nails are like local or regional microbreweries. Culvers/5 Guys/Red Robin are like mass produced craft beer (think Sam Adams or Great Lakes.) BK/McD/Taco Bell are the Budweisers and Meisterbraus of the food world.
One exception to all this: Hot Head Burritos. It is a regional chain HQ'd in Dayton that is simply excremental. They have a huge fan base but their food is pure poo. Garbage. You'd think a regional chain had to be "good" but HHB is just dreadful - TB is better. Either Taco Bell or tuberculosis, that is...
Since when is a $2.50 burger at Culver's a gourmet burger? It is cheaper than a lot of the burgers at the fast food places.
The OP keeps complaining about the price of everything. You can always head down and get the fixings at the grocery store and do it at home for a lot less.
Since I spent just under $10 for basically two cheeseburger deluxes. They were OK, but nothing to rave about. And to me Culver's is a fast food place. Any place which has a drive-through is not cooking to order.
I will agree the cost of ingredients at the grocery store can easily exceed the price of a burger bought out. I happen to like my burger run through the garden, lettuce, onion, tomato definitely, pickle slices yes. By the time you get decent buns, your home preparation has exceeded the cost of buying out. And unless I get my Fry-Daddy out there is no way I can make french fries to match theirs. But I have learned to request they hold their lame mayonnaise or 1000 island sauce. I always have a couple of jars of Frisch's tartar sauce in the fridge. So I bring my burgers home dry and then lather on the tartar sauce. Frisch's may not be the leader in casual (fast food) restaurants, but their tartar sauce still beats the rest sideways.
I just have to agree the local burger joint is probably the best deal.
The distinguishing thing about Culver's is definitely not their burgers, which are decent quality but nothing exceptional as fast food burgers go. But Culver's has a much more extensive menu than most FF places, which puts it into kind of a hybrid niche. I've never actually eaten one of their full, diner-style meals, but I'm willing to drive a long distance occasionally for the pot roast sandwich, which is large, filling, and astonishingly low in calories and fat. Which is a good thing, since I usually feel kind of ill from grease overload after consuming even a small size butterburger.
Of course, Culver's is worth a trip for the frozen custard alone, which is a product that I'm not sure you can find widely available in this area.
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To add confusion to the categories, how about Steak N' Shake? Full service like a real restaurant... real china plates... national chain... a pretty decent product... fast food level prices. They also cross categories, like Culver's.
Culver's is one of the few decent places to get fried chicken. KFC is, well, KFC, and most Popeye's units are absolutely gross.
To add confusion to the categories, how about Steak N' Shake? Full service like a real restaurant... real china plates... national chain... a pretty decent product... fast food level prices. They also cross categories, like Culver's.
Culver's is one of the few decent places to get fried chicken. KFC is, well, KFC, and most Popeye's units are absolutely gross.
Steak & Shake has been closing their outlets near me. Not too sure why?
When it comes to fried chicken, I go to Kroger. They use a pressure cooker frying method which I prefer, less oily texture. But you do want to get it freshly cooked. KFC has become expensive for the product.
"Quality" in mass fast food is probably oxymoronic today. The MBAs would never allow unnecessary money to be spent on pure overhead, IE, the actual product. The only criteria used in mass market food quality today is what is the least that can be spent while not driving away most of the customers.
So the "real quality" at the national level is only going to be found in the profusion of new burger chains like 5 Guys that Brill is protesting.
It's just a matter of economics. You have to have a product positioned as "elite" in order to charge enough to be able to put good stuff into it. Literally you get what you pay for. I believe there is actually a huge hunger for decent quality fast food - it's an entirely different tier of product than BK/McD/White Castle/Arby's. But the ability and willingness to pay for that quality is not a mass market. It's currently kind of a niche market.
And, bring back Burger Chef, as in free standing restaurants. That would be the ultimate boomer nostalgia bid. The trademark is currently owned by Hardee's, a mecca of mediocrity.
Yes Burger Chef was great, as I barely remember from the 70's, 80's. But Hardees bought and ruined 2 great chains, Burger Chef and Roy Rogers. Roy Rogers is now expanding again in Virginia and Maryland under new ownership. But Hardees still owns the trademark to Burger Chef and refuses to allow another franchise group to redevelop it. There was an attempt and a lawsuit. Today Hardees is owned by Carl's Jr. from California and headquartered in St. Louis.
The profusion of so-called elite burger joints eludes me.
I have been to Five Guys exactly once. Saw one open near me and stopped in one afternoon. My wife and her caregiver were out someplace else and I was by myself. Did get a huge mound of skin-on french fries, more than I wanted to eat at one sitting. The interior of the store was lined with sacks of potatoes so it was easy to see they are set up to mass produce them. The burger itself was a mound of ground beef thrown on a grill and mashed down with a spatula, apparently intended to give it a more homemade look rather than a formed patty. I felt the burger was greasy, perhaps because the grill persons were not educated to scrape the grill between burgers.....
Pretty close to my experience with Five Guys, although I've been there more than once. Just not worth the money for me. I haven't been back in months.
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