The changing face of the suburbs

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

Suburban enclaves like this are an attempt to seize the appealing aspects of dense cities but exclude the urban poor. I expect Cincinnati to become surrounded by them over the coming decades.

Very well put.

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[motorman]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

Suburban enclaves like this are an attempt to seize the appealing aspects of dense cities but exclude the urban poor. I expect Cincinnati to become surrounded by them over the coming decades.

I disagree. Yes, such suburban enclaves do tend to exclude urban poor, but to infer that's the main reason they're being built is simply not true. The primary consideration of any market driven developer is to locate the most goods, services and dwellings nearest the largest number of consumers most likely to take advantage of them. Therefore, it follows that the dense concentration of attractive upscale stores, eateries and residential units planned for Deerfield Twp. will ensure frequent trips and increased profits from the increasing number of affluent millennials wishing that area to be both their workplace, home and center of leisure activities. The combined article/video below says it all:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...here-they-work

[Chemistry_Guy]

Originally Posted by motorman

I disagree. Yes, such suburban enclaves do tend to exclude urban poor, but to infer that's the main reason they're being built is simply not true. The primary consideration of any market driven developer is to locate the most goods, services and dwellings nearest the largest number of consumers most likely to take advantage of them. Therefore, it follows that the dense concentration of attractive upscale stores, eateries and residential units planned for Deerfield Twp. will ensure frequent trips and increased profits from the increasing number of affluent millennials wishing that area to be both their workplace, home and center of leisure activities. The combined article/video below says it all:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...here-they-work

Obviously the for-profit developer wants to make money. The reason why this type of development is so appealing, and profitable, is that it shifts the calculus associated with what people are willing to trade off in order to be in a good school district. Property values in walkable neighborhoods with good school districts are sky-high right now, and developers see dollar signs. That is why a modest 3BR house is 700K in Mariemont and a Cape Cod on a 0.15 acre lot in Madeira can push 400K. The development next to Summit park in Blue Ash has potential buyers lined up for miles.

Municipalities have to compete to attract affluent professionals who are ready to put down some roots and buy a house. For a few decades, square footage, lot size, and "school district" were enough to pull young families outside of the 275 loop. As everyone knows, "school district" is a proxy for "socioeconomic status." Aspiring home buyers are looking for the right combination of space, schools, commute time, and of course budget. Despite some very notable bright spots for CPS, some city neighborhoods are able to check all of the boxes except for schools. No matter how effectively rated certain CPS schools are, they will suffer due to the lack of socioeconomic exclusivity that can be found in desirable suburbs.

The home buyer that rejects Oakley or Pleasant Ridge because of school district is exactly who will pay big bucks to live in Deerfield.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

Obviously the for-profit developer wants to make money. The reason why this type of development is so appealing, and profitable, is that it shifts the calculus associated with what people are willing to trade off in order to be in a good school district. Property values in walkable neighborhoods with good school districts are sky-high right now, and developers see dollar signs. That is why a modest 3BR house is 700K in Mariemont and a Cape Cod on a 0.15 acre lot in Madeira can push 400K. The development next to Summit park in Blue Ash has potential buyers lined up for miles.

Municipalities have to compete to attract affluent professionals who are ready to put down some roots and buy a house. For a few decades, square footage, lot size, and "school district" were enough to pull young families outside of the 275 loop. As everyone knows, "school district" is a proxy for "socioeconomic status." Aspiring home buyers are looking for the right combination of space, schools, commute time, and of course budget. Despite some very notable bright spots for CPS, some city neighborhoods are able to check all of the boxes except for schools. No matter how effectively rated certain CPS schools are, they will suffer due to the lack of socioeconomic exclusivity that can be found in desirable suburbs.

The home buyer that rejects Oakley or Pleasant Ridge because of school district is exactly who will pay big bucks to live in Deerfield.

I'll take my KY suburbs where good county based schools (especially some of the schools in Boone County or Ft. Mitchell and Ft. Thomas) due to the lower pressure of high prices. My condo in Campbell County (and Campbell County Schools) I am buying is no more than 15 minutes from downtown at peak traffic. And my property taxes are 1/3 to possibly over 1/2 the cost of property taxes on the Ohio side.

If I had the money, I would buy in Ft. Thomas all day long.

Regardless, I agree that the people that will buy in these developments around Deerfield Township (and if smart, West Chester Township would do something of similar scale around Union Center and/or Liberty Center) will tend to be those wanting a newer, more Disney-esque experience of urban lifestyle without the crime and safety issues that come with poorer socio-economic areas. Dublin, Ohio, outside Columbus, has already done something similar with the Bridge Street District. That balance of schools, crime and commute is a key factor. Personally, I think people buying in the Deerfield project won't be commuters to downtown. Maybe the northern suburban office complexes in Mason, West Chester, or northern tiers of Hamilton County. That is quite a slog downtown.

Also, I think the reason why Maderia appeals if you don't want to live in CPS and neighborhoods like Pleasant Ridge and Oakley or even Amberley (minus the commercial walkability), is the only exceptional high school is Walnut Hills. And while that is a great school, there is still uncertainty until acceptance is granted. Plus it is a rather large school (though grades I think are 6-12) and some parents may want a smaller feel like Maderia with its commute times with proximity to Kenwood, Rookwood, and downtown. The little town center in Maderia is not a bad selling point either. The west side's Wyoming might be the older equivalent to Maderia today.

I drove through Maderia on Saturday and was quite surprised at the amount of tear downs and remodels (usually with large additions) that were occuring here. Reminded me of some of the in-demand, inner-ring suburbs of Chicago.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

Suburban enclaves like this are an attempt to seize the appealing aspects of dense cities but exclude the urban poor. I expect Cincinnati to become surrounded by them over the coming decades.

Everything a suburban or ruralish person love about cities and nothing they don't! These places are expensive to build, which suits our nation's ever-expanding income inequality nicely. Hard to blame any one thing, and in a way these dense developments are good; but the overall effect is a little depressing.