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First time posting to this site... My partner and I are in the process of house hunting and we found a place on Dunning Pl (off Erie) in Madisonville. I am very used to urban settings (lived in East Walnut Hills for 3 years prior). This area reminds me a lot of EWH, however, I am not familiar with this part of town. I would appreciate feedback from those who have previously lived there or currently do. Thanks!
I don't live there and never did. But from what I am observing from the comments here and elsewhere the business district of Madisonville is dead as a doornail. This may actually be good relative to the residential population. Without a resemblance of a business district to bring people through the only people there should be residents. This helps to qualify who has a reason to be there and who does not. There is not much reason to be hanging on a vacant corner.
So far you have not received any responses on your solicitation of best streets. This may be due to people with the knowledge are just not frequent visitors of this forum. But I will offer there may not be a lot of distinction these days. If the criminal element has been displaced due to a lack of interest, that is good. Unless it has already happened, the neighborhood council needs to petition for the demolition of the old businesses along Madison and Whetsel. Turn them into a park, whatever. And I can't think of a single building in that area which warrants any laments for architectural signnificance. Yea, that is right, I say bulldoze them and convert Madisonville back into a nice sleepy, suburb, residential neighborhood of Cincinnati. Yes, it is a suburb and has all the trappings of one. So what, you need areas like Madisonville to come back and regain their position as residential enclaves of Cincinnati.
I'm not too familiar with that particular street; I lived on the other end of Madisonville for 13 years but that was awhile ago and things may have changed.
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Originally Posted by kjbrill
But from what I am observing from the comments here and elsewhere the business district of Madisonville is dead as a doornail. This may actually be good relative to the residential population.
No, not really because there's no added incentive for people to move there. Why do people move to Clifton or Hyde Park? Partly because of the proximity of neighborhood businesses. Which neighborhoods in the city are the most desirable? The ones with a thriving neighborhood business district.
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Unless it has already happened, the neighborhood council needs to petition for the demolition of the old businesses along Madison and Whetsel. Turn them into a park, whatever.
That's happened several times over the years, and it really hasn't helped much. The older buildings on three of the four corners of that intersection are gone.
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convert Madisonville back into a nice sleepy, suburb, residential neighborhood of Cincinnati.
Actually what it needs is to evolve back into the small town, with its own unique business district serving the neighborhood residents, that it was before it was annexed into the city in 1911.
Actually what it needs is to evolve back into the small town, with its own unique business district serving the neighborhood residents, that it was before it was annexed into the city in 1911.
That simply is not going to happen. You stated it all when you said Madisonville was annexed a century ago. The city was content to have Madisonville as a neighborhood. But when Madisonville needed help the city was unable to respond. Just the exact reason why I am against proposals such as city county government mergers. The arguments are increased efficiency. I have never seen one example of where a larger government was ever more efficient than the smaller ones it replaced.
I definitely believe Madisonville can be revived as a bedroom only community. They do not need a small, and expensive, local business district. They don't even need fast food restaurants. There are simply too many nearby locations to go shopping. Basically the original Kenwood Plaza put the death knoll on the local Madisonville businesses. It offered more glitz and lower prices. Nothing has basically changed in the intervening years.
That simply is not going to happen. You stated it all when you said Madisonville was annexed a century ago. The city was content to have Madisonville as a neighborhood. But when Madisonville needed help the city was unable to respond. Just the exact reason why I am against proposals such as city county government mergers. The arguments are increased efficiency. I have never seen one example of where a larger government was ever more efficient than the smaller ones it replaced...
Veering completely off topic, but quickly: I was an adult, tax-paying citizen during the time the Lexington/Fayette County merger was proposed, discussed, voted on and implemented. It eliminated a LOT of costly, duplicative administrative overhead and created a streamlined, efficient and effective single local government. Going out on a limb here, I doubt if you could find anyone anywhere in the area today who could or would rationally advocate to going back to how things were. Because the merger didn't create a larger government, it created a smaller government than the total of the two it replaced.
That said, the Lexington experience has just about zero relevance to Hamilton County. Only two government entities had to merge, or maybe it was three including a tiny outlying village--I can't remember. That will never happen here, not in my lifetime anyway.
I don't live there and never did. But from what I am observing from the comments here and elsewhere the business district of Madisonville is dead as a doornail. This may actually be good relative to the residential population. Without a resemblance of a business district to bring people through the only people there should be residents. This helps to qualify who has a reason to be there and who does not. There is not much reason to be hanging on a vacant corner.
So far you have not received any responses on your solicitation of best streets. This may be due to people with the knowledge are just not frequent visitors of this forum. But I will offer there may not be a lot of distinction these days. If the criminal element has been displaced due to a lack of interest, that is good. Unless it has already happened, the neighborhood council needs to petition for the demolition of the old businesses along Madison and Whetsel. Turn them into a park, whatever. And I can't think of a single building in that area which warrants any laments for architectural signnificance. Yea, that is right, I say bulldoze them and convert Madisonville back into a nice sleepy, suburb, residential neighborhood of Cincinnati. Yes, it is a suburb and has all the trappings of one. So what, you need areas like Madisonville to come back and regain their position as residential enclaves of Cincinnati.
Forgive me, but this an ignorant comment. People who understand urban spaces and the sources of blight understand that vacant lots are every bit as destructive to the fabric of a neighborhood as neglected buildings, if not more so. They have been practicing 1960's style "urban renewal" in Madisonville for years by tearing down everything considered a nuisance, but what they have done is blighted the neighborhood further.
You are wrong to say that there is/was nothing of historical significance in Madisonville, and several key structures have been lost in the last several years. It was devastating to the streetscape when the 1890s department store on the SW of Madison and Whetsel was torn down 15 years ago. What is it today? Still an empty lot. It solved nothing. I know several city staffers who have watched helplessly as Madisonville has systematically disemboweled its business district. It's an unenlightened approach being taken by the people of that neighborhood, because once it's gone, it's gone.
You say tear it all down so the thugs don't have any place to hang out. That also solves nothing, because they haven't left the neighborhood. If anything they lurk more in neighborhood streets. And I have news for you, the modern strip mall with the big parking lot on Madison is more of an attractive nuisance than anything they have torn down.
Needless to say, I strongly disagree with your assessment of Madisonville. I had family in the neighborhood for generations, so I have some perspective on what it was, what it is, and what it could be.
Now for the OP, I can tell you that the best parts of Madisonville are along Erie and the area east of Plainville, sometimes called Madison Place. Erie trends upward as you move from Whetsel to Bramble. The people who live in the grand homes along Erie will tell you that it is a very quiet area and are very happy there. It's stable, and improving. There's been some major rehabbing recently, which is nice to see. On the downside, as you get closer to the intersection of Erie and Roe, things slide quickly. There are some derelict industrial properties, and they recently tore down a very historic residential structure at the corner of Erie and Roe. The Eastminster Presbyterian Church there is a good anchor ( and a beautiful piece of Victorian architecture ) and creates some stability. Behind Dunning along I believe it is Tompkins Avenue you'll find a mix of Victorians and new construction, and when I have cruised around there it looks fairly peaceful and several of the homes are well maintained. So, as for Dunning Place, I'd say it's on the fringes. You could walk one block in either direction and see the extremes that Madisonville has to offer. I'd say go there, get out of your car, walk around and talk to people. You'll probably run into a couple of friends of mine, and maybe even a very well known local TV weatherman who lives nearby.
t45209... So you want Madisonville to return to the small town it was when Cincinnati annexed it? And just how to you propose this be accomplished? A euthorpia of some moden day Mayberry with small businesses taking up residence. Businesses first of all need patrons. It has been years since Madisonville was attractive to any business. So start with what it is, a close in neighborhood to Cincinnati offering good commute times, etc. Build on the housing base which hopefully still exists where updating is not overwhelmed by the cost of reconstruction. Encourage people with reasons to invest their money in residential property to locate there. Get the residential aspect back under control. If you envision a modern day version of Hyde Park I believe you are barking up the wrong tree. If you envision a quiet, stable, and enjoyable residential neighborhood I believe it is accomplishable. But every year which goes by with further deterioriation of the property counter-acts that.
... The Eastminster Presbyterian Church there is a good anchor ( and a beautiful piece of Victorian architecture ) and creates some stability. ...
The architecture of that church takes my breath away. But I believe it is endangered as a congregation, and needless to say, that puts the building in peril as well.
t45209... So you want Madisonville to return to the small town it was when Cincinnati annexed it? And just how to you propose this be accomplished? A euthorpia of some moden day Mayberry with small businesses taking up residence. Businesses first of all need patrons. It has been years since Madisonville was attractive to any business. So start with what it is, a close in neighborhood to Cincinnati offering good commute times, etc. Build on the housing base which hopefully still exists where updating is not overwhelmed by the cost of reconstruction. Encourage people with reasons to invest their money in residential property to locate there. Get the residential aspect back under control. If you envision a modern day version of Hyde Park I believe you are barking up the wrong tree. If you envision a quiet, stable, and enjoyable residential neighborhood I believe it is accomplishable. But every year which goes by with further deterioriation of the property counter-acts that.
You have an uncanny ability to put words in people's mouths and draw incorrect conclusions. Where did I say it should be Hyde Park? Where??? I will say this, though, on balance, Madisonville's housing stock is superior to what exists in Oakley and so if it was just about housing Madisonville should be thriving.
Your scorched earth policy regarding the business district will do nothing to encourage people to move to the neighborhood. In fact, it has the opposite effect. And if what you say about no business is going to locate there is true, then why not bulldoze the whole neighborhood as a lost cause?
The people with money that you speak of are less likely to be attracted to a neighborhood with few amenities within its own borders, and certainly not one with bunch of bombed out empty lots and strip mall with a Deveroes for a business district.
I do agree that you must have an economically viable indigenous population in order to support local business. For years I watched the City waste our tax dollars on things like TJ Maxx in downtown without any apparent consideration for the fact that no one lived there to support such a business. However, Madisonville does have a local population, and I think people are discovering Madisonville as they are priced out of Oakely and Hyde Park. Madisonville has unfortunately displayed a recurring lack of vision and it is systematically destroying its greatest assets and source of future opportunity.
Kjbrill, you mentioned Mayberry...well you're old enough to remember the episode of The Andy Griffith Show where the film company wanted to shoot a picture using Mayberry as a backdrop. Well, the citizens of Mayberry became so caught up in the excitement of being featured in this movie and thinking they needed to give the town a facelift, that they lost sight of who they really were and what made them unique and special...and in a last desperate and short sighted act, Mayor Pike and his council laid a saw to the old oak tree in the town square. Maybe you are right Kjbrill, that Madisonville could be a Mayberry of sorts...just not the one Andy would have wanted to live in.
t45209... You say that Madisonville needs to have a business climate in order to be successful. Perhaps you forget that it actually borders Indian Hill which does not have a single business operation within its confines, which is large. Unlike separate incorporated areas, Madisonville does not need commercial taxes to support its schools, etc. Concentrate on redeveloping the housing stock in Madisonville and making it a unique, preferred place to live in Cincinnati, and it can easily outdo Oakley. Not everyone needs or desires the walkability everyone speaks of for their neighborhood. Especially if you let it have the peace, quiet, and safety which few places in the city provide. I can envision a Madisonville which has a couple of decent parks, including some dog parks, and the walkability is confined to just a stroll to the park with the kids and the dogs. What is wrong with that?
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