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The Census is not going by how we classify people. Is Ta-Nehisi Coates a journalist or an author? Is Skip Gates a professor or an author? In laymen's terms, they are both, but the Census doesn't allow people to choose multiple occupations. And in their specific cases, their primary occupations would be journalist and professor, respectively.
The Boston metro area has 5,667 "writers and authors" of all races. The city of Los Angeles (city proper) has 15,802. So my sense is that the people who are calling themselves "writers and authors" are more of the literary/creative variety rather than tenured professors who publish a book every decade on particle physics.
Yea- I considered all that. I'm still doubtful that just 1.2% of writers in Boston MSA are black. Even with all things considered that seems unrealistically low. Like... that's lower than a lot of (most) professions with much higher barriers to entry and those with less clear pathways to sustaining a living. It's really really low...1/10th of the Bay. Even Detroit. We tryna say just
.0009% of Black Detroit is a writer? I begin to question its validity even as a proxy measurement.
For reasons you stated maybe its just an imperfect measure of intellectualism. Especially if the writers in LA are screenwriters versus professors or journalists.
Yea- I considered all that. I'm still doubtful that just 1.2% of writers in Boston MSA are black. Even with all things considered that seems unrealistically low. Like... that's lower than a lot of (most) professions with much higher barriers to entry and those with less clear pathways to sustaining a living. It's really really low...1/10th of the Bay. Even Detroit. We tryna say just
.0009% of Black Detroit is a writer? I begin to question its validity even as a proxy measurement.
For reasons you stated maybe its just an imperfect measure of intellectualism. Especially if the writers in LA are screenwriters versus professors or journalists.
Looking at the 2021 ACS 5-year dataset, the number rises to 313. Much higher than 63 but that's to be expected since you're going to have more statistical noise with a smaller population.
By comparison, the District of Columbia (not the metro) had 718.
Also, how many writers do people actually think there are? Same with dancers and musicians. You can go on Amazon and find any number of books written on various topics by people with ordinary day jobs. I would not call 99% of those people a "writer" or "author" any more than I would call the guy who sells insurance by day a "musician" because he plays guitar at a local pub once per month. I get the whole "I'm so unique and my many talents can't be placed into a box" thing that so many people are on these days but there's a point where people begin to feel you're misrepresenting yourself if you're not really living that life.
Some people need to stop conflating their hobbies with their primary means of living.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 01-24-2024 at 04:20 PM..
Some of the "writers" in LA might be screenwriters. But LA has always been a magnet for poets and novelists. In general, it's a place for people who are more artistically inclined. If you're thinking about intellectualism very narrowly, more in terms of the analytical, then it would make sense for other cities to be more "intellectual," even though Los Angeles isn't exactly a slouch in that category with several prestigious universities.
Looking at the 2021 ACS 5-year dataset, the number rises to 313. Much higher than 63 but that's to be expected since you're going to have more statistical noise with a smaller population.
By comparison, the District of Columbia (not the metro) had 718.
Also, how many writers do people actually think there are? Same with dancers and musicians. You can go on Amazon and find any number of books written on various topics by people with ordinary day jobs. I would not call 99% of those people a "writer" or "author" any more than I would call the guy who sells insurance by day a "musician" because he plays guitar at a local pub once per month. I get the whole "I'm so unique and my many talents can't be placed into a box" thing that so many people are on these days but there's a point where people begin to feel you're misrepresenting yourself if you're not really living that life.
Some people need to stop conflating their hobbies with their primary means of living.
There we go 313 is way more reasonable. Thats all, I think that accounts for the noise too. DC at 718 seems maybe a touch high given your second paragraph but not unbelievable given DC being a well-known black intellectual capital.
63 is just too low. I dont think that is conflating. I wasn't arguing its like 1000+, 2000+.
Detroit should be around 500 id think. not 91.
Im not saying screenwriting is for simpletons, not at all. But I think it doesn't carry as much intellectual heft as some other professions discussed here. My definition is somewhat broad I think. But artistic and creative can be blatantly anti-intellectual if it chooses to be. I don't have a dog in this fight i just thought the writer's numbers looked sus.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Im not saying screenwriting is for simpletons, not at all. But I think it doesn't carry as much intellectual heft as some other professions discussed here. My definition is somewhat broad I think. But artistic and creative can be blatantly anti-intellectual if it chooses to be. I don't have a dog in this fight i just thought the writer's numbers looked sus.
As a writer that has spent the last 20 years in the training and technical writing worlds I can assure you there is one thing that unites writers of all sorts: The desire to be paid.
Hardly anyone actually cares about "intellectual heft" aside from tenured professors and people who think too highly of their writing. Is it a non-factor? No, but for most people that write a paycheck can be elusive sometimes.
If you find your niche, and you're happy with the pay, then you hold on for dear life because a writing gig can dry up super fast.
As a writer that has spent the last 20 years in the training and technical writing worlds I can assure you there is one thing that unites writers of all sorts: The desire to be paid.
Hardly anyone actually cares about "intellectual heft" aside from tenured professors and people who think too highly of their writing. Is it a non-factor? No, but for most people that write a paycheck can be elusive sometimes.
If you find your niche, and you're happy with the pay, then you hold on for dear life because a writing gig can dry up super fast.
Okay so you support my argument that perhaps writers isn't a good proxy for intellectualism- yes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
For reasons you stated maybe its just an imperfect measure of intellectualism. Especially if the writers in LA are screenwriters versus professors or journalists.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,990,056 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Okay so you support my argument that perhaps writers isn't a good proxy for intellectualism- yes?
Oh, definitely. Some of the least intellectual people I've ever encountered have been writers. It's not a
necessary component to writing as some might imagine. Hell, some of the best writers I've ever worked with were pretty detached from reality.
Oh, definitely. Some of the least intellectual people I've ever encountered have been writers. It's not a
necessary component to writing as some might imagine. Hell, some of the best writers I've ever worked with were pretty detached from reality.
Yeah.
I think getting detached from reality would actually be somewhat important and beneficial for a fiction writer/screenwriter.
The Census is not going by how we classify people. Is Ta-Nehisi Coates a journalist or an author? Is Skip Gates a professor or an author? In laymen's terms, they are both, but the Census doesn't allow people to choose multiple occupations. And in their specific cases, their primary occupations would be journalist and professor, respectively.
The Boston metro area has 5,667 "writers and authors" of all races. The city of Los Angeles (city proper) has 15,802. So my sense is that the people who are calling themselves "writers and authors" are more of the literary/creative variety rather than tenured professors who publish a book every decade on particle physics.
Just so you all know, the official government classifier of occupations is not the Bureau of the Census but the Bureau of Labor Statistics, whose classifications the Census Bureau uses in its surveys.
Writers fall under Section 27-3000, "Media and Communication Workers." This section contains the following subsections where workers make their living by writing at least part of the time:
27-3020 (27-3023), "News Analysts, Reporters and Journalists" (the box I check off)
27-3030 (37-3031), "Public Relations Specialsts"
27-3040, "Writers and Editors," containing three sub-subsections:
27-3041, "Editors"
27-3042, "Technical Writers"
27-3043, "Writers and Authors"
Of those, the only subcategory where I think people might regard some of those in it as "intellectuals" is 27-3043. Some in 27-3023 may be bookish (I am) or erudite (columnist George Will), but those aren't necessarily "intellectual" either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas
As a writer that has spent the last 20 years in the training and technical writing worlds I can assure you there is one thing that unites writers of all sorts: The desire to be paid.
Hardly anyone actually cares about "intellectual heft" aside from tenured professors and people who think too highly of their writing. Is it a non-factor? No, but for most people that write a paycheck can be elusive sometimes.
If you find your niche, and you're happy with the pay, then you hold on for dear life because a writing gig can dry up super fast.
"None but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." —Samuel Johnson
New York - 21,888
Washington - 17,283
Atlanta - 16,307
Houston - 9,667
Philadelphia - 7,759
Chicago - 7,198
Los Angeles - 6,764
Dallas - 6,414
Miami - 6,392
San Francisco - 4,227
Detroit - 4,037
Boston - 3,192
San Jose - 1,115
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