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I don't know where you got your stats from, but they are mostly wrong.
According to the Charlotte Chamber, Charlotte is over 300 sq miles. Wiki perhaps? Charlotte is one of the least dense cities in the nation. Raleigh is the most dense major city in the State. Currently Raleigh is roughly 425,000 within 142 sq miles. It also on of the fastest growing cities per capita in the U.S.
Almost the entire section of Northern wake county is protected watershed. Like I said, almost all of wake county's population surrounds Raleigh and it's adjacent suburbs. Have a look at Wake county's density maps.
The Triangle's Research Triangle Park is the largest research park in the nation! University City in Charlotte is quite small by comparison.
The GDP figures you speak of are incorrect. Durham has a GDP of 32 billion by itself. The combined Triangle GDP is quickly approaching 100 billion. Quite imppressive for an area that doesn't have two banks assets factored into the figures. Stats can be tricky. Charlotte and Raleigh's per capita GDP are very much close to each others so.... Charlotte is still the major transportation and textile hub of the state. Raleigh is the major educational, biopharma, and research hub, second only to Boston.
We can go back and forth all we want, but Raleigh and Charlotte are like comparing apples and oranges. The layouts of the Triangle is completely different than Charlotte's. Raleigh has to share it's fame with other cities in the area, because well that's the make up of the area....
The Triangle is quickly approaching 1.8 million. Charlotte is quickly approaching 1.9 million. Not much of a difference... Different layouts just make them hard to compare.
I wish we had Lake Norman however!
I don't think there is that much difference in density between the two outside of the downtown areas. If you were in either, you probably couldnt tell the difference density wise. And Im almost certain Charlotte has at least 425,000 and more in the same amount of area(about 142 square miles).
When you say Raleigh-Durham's metro population is approaching 1.8 million, I am assuming you got that number from Wikipedia, which lists the CSA at 1,742,816. So, that is not the true MSAs for Raleigh-Durham and to be fair you can combine the 2 and you would get around 1.6 million and some change. Charlotte's MSA alone already stands at close to 1.8 million and if they were to include a few extra counties as I have heard discussed before it would probably be closer to 2 million. That is a sizeable difference in just the MSA alone, even as it is, almost 200,000 people is a pretty big difference for metros this size. With a larger metro, I could understand the gap wouldn't seem that big but 200,000 people is a pretty big difference that's like adding another Durham to the Triangle. And this is without counting Iredell and Lincoln I believe, which would be more appropriate to include than Anson, but it is what it is. But yea if u want to go by CSA then Raleigh Durham is just under 1.8 million and Charlotte is over 2.4-2.5 million which is a huge difference. You can't have it both ways the numbers already are in the Triangle's favor by default considering they are 3 cities and cover a larger area. And Charlotte is still significantally larger. But if u use the CSA for one you might as well use it for the other, it's not fair to use one figure for the triangle to validate your point when you are using a different figure entirely for Charlotte. The point is, Charlotte is still larger, and even if the Charlotte area were to completely stop growing, which isn't likely, it took Raleigh about a decade to add 120 something thousand people so if you include the whole Triangle area, since it would be significantly more people, it might take less than a decade to catch Charlotte but at least 5 years. And like I said in that time Charlotte is bound to grow a good bit too most likely so I don't see the Triangle catching Charlotte for at least 15 years imo, and a lot could happen in 15 years. It will be interesting to see how it plays out regardless of the outcome, Raleigh is a cool city and I like it, but the truth is it will not be passing Charlotte anytime soon unless your definition of soon is two decades.
The Triangle's CSA is a blunder made by the Census Bureau. It's a known blunder. Raleigh and Durham are both joined cities that were separated by and asinine definition that does not work for this area. Meanwhile Charlotte benefited even though many of the counties in it's CSA are extremely rural. The Triangle, Greensboro, Charlotte areas were all roughly the same size before the definition change. What makes Charlotte different is the fact it's the sole economic engine of it's region. Both areas are not that much different in size. Central Charlotte is quite a bit larger than Central Raleigh that's for sure, so it has more clout as a city. It has also been a sizable city for quite some time. Raleigh has literally sprung out of nowhere because of it's incredible growth, so it hasn't attained the clout of the Queen City yet.
I don't think there is that much difference in density between the two outside of the downtown areas. If you were in either, you probably couldnt tell the difference density wise. And Im almost certain Charlotte has at least 425,000 and more in the same amount of area(about 142 square miles).
That's absolutely true. If Charlotte was still 142 sq miles I'm more the certain it would be at least 500k+! Charlotte is bigger, just not by as much as people think. Looking at just the population numbers don't tell the whole story whatsoever. Charlotte is very spread out.
Meanwhile Charlotte benefited even though many of the counties in it's CSA are extremely rural.
Most CSAs include really rural counties, especially if the CSA revolves around one dominant city. But Charlotte actually didn't benefit from the revised MSA definition because it lost Iredell and Lancaster counties. Those were deemed micropolitan areas and split off from the MSA; they are only included in the CSA.
Charlotte has a ways to go before it can be defined as truly metropolitan. Add on another sports team and then you may have my vote...
Raleigh is stuck in the 1980's. Sure it has grown a lot, but grown into what? I appreciated Raleigh a lot more in the past. More trees, less traffic. Now on every corner there are new office condos being built, even though right up the street there are office buildings that are vacant. New schools are being built, however the schools in down town Raleigh are in serious need of renovation and repair. I fear that Raleigh is out of control, and areas outside of down town are becoming more cluttered every season.
I don't know where you got your stats from, but they are mostly wrong.
According to the Charlotte Chamber, Charlotte is over 300 sq miles. Wiki perhaps? Charlotte is one of the least dense cities in the nation. Raleigh is the most dense major city in the State. Currently Raleigh is roughly 425,000 within 142 sq miles. It also on of the fastest growing cities per capita in the U.S.
Almost the entire section of Northern wake county is protected watershed. Like I said, almost all of wake county's population surrounds Raleigh and it's adjacent suburbs. Have a look at Wake county's density maps.
The Triangle's Research Triangle Park is the largest research park in the nation! University City in Charlotte is quite small by comparison.
The GDP figures you speak of are incorrect. Durham has a GDP of 32 billion by itself. The combined Triangle GDP is quickly approaching 100 billion. Quite imppressive for an area that doesn't have two banks assets factored into the figures. Stats can be tricky. Charlotte and Raleigh's per capita GDP are very much close to each others so.... Charlotte is still the major transportation and textile hub of the state. Raleigh is the major educational, biopharma, and research hub, second only to Boston.
We can go back and forth all we want, but Raleigh and Charlotte are like comparing apples and oranges. The layouts of the Triangle is completely different than Charlotte's. Raleigh has to share it's fame with other cities in the area, because well that's the make up of the area....
The Triangle is quickly approaching 1.8 million. Charlotte is quickly approaching 1.9 million. Not much of a difference... Different layouts just make them hard to compare.
I wish we had Lake Norman however!
Ok, I'll play your game and I'll compare RDU CSA to Charlotte's MSA, although I do agree that RDU should be one MSA. So, I am comparing RDU's 7 county CSA to Charlotte's 6 county MSA.
Charlotte: 1.745million, $11.8billion GDP
RDU: 1.6 million, $85billion GDP.
Keeping everything fair RDU has more counties and a smaller population and a smaller GDP. So, as you can see, Charlotte is really a huge economic pull with relatively the same amount of population as RDU. Now, you can cite banking for Charlotte. Some other things you need to cite are medical devices manufacturing, energy infrastructure and production, biotech research(yes it's here playa), textiles, automobile parts manufacturing, wholesale trade and logistics, federal offices (Reserve bank divisional branch, federal circuit court, and FBI office), and the list goes one. Now you can see why banking is only 10%.
This is of no slight to RDU. What RDU is doing is extremely impressive and it should be applauded. It should also be noted that whle RDU is growing at a faster rate than Charlotte, Charlotte is growing bigger. The percentages for RDU's growth is relative to the size of RDU. While numerically Charlotte is adding more people. Also, Salisbury, Statesville, Mooresville, Chester, Lancaster, Shelby, and Lincolnton are very much apart of the Charlotte metro region and rumors have it that some will be added to the MSA.
And let's not act like RDU doesn't have any rural communities that are connected to it. Let's think about Knightdale, Wendale, Garner, Wake Forest, and Oxford and tell me those places are purely suburban.
The Triangle's CSA is a blunder made by the Census Bureau. It's a known blunder. Raleigh and Durham are both joined cities that were separated by and asinine definition that does not work for this area. Meanwhile Charlotte benefited even though many of the counties in it's CSA are extremely rural. The Triangle, Greensboro, Charlotte areas were all roughly the same size before the definition change. What makes Charlotte different is the fact it's the sole economic engine of it's region. Both areas are not that much different in size. Central Charlotte is quite a bit larger than Central Raleigh that's for sure, so it has more clout as a city. It has also been a sizable city for quite some time. Raleigh has literally sprung out of nowhere because of it's incredible growth, so it hasn't attained the clout of the Queen City yet.
But if you look I did account for the flawed MSA's of Raleigh and Durham being separate and added them together. Like I said Charlotte is still a good bit larger MSA to MSA. The triangle's CSA contains plenty of rural counties as well since when are Vance and Warren counties considered anything but rural especially Warren. And these are the first two that popped in my head there's a long list of them that I haven't been to which are probably just as rural as those in Charlotte's. So if you want to count the Triangle's entire CSA you have to count Charlotte's as well and by the CSA definition, Charlotte is way larger.
But I'm trying to be fair by adding the Raleigh and Durham metros together which they should be considered one region, but even though the population difference is far less, it is close to 200,000 give or take. Like I said 200,000 out of a metro of 1.9 million is pretty big, it would be like the Triangle adding another city the size of Durham. And Charlotte has not been a sizeable city for quite some time, it wasn't nearly as developed 20 years ago as it is today, not even 10 years ago.
And please the Charlotte Greensboro and Triangle areas similar in size. This is exactly what I'm talking about if you compared areas roughly the same size in each metro Charlotte would probably add a lot more people to it's MSA, because if you combined the Triangle MSA's together as they are now they would cover more of the populated areas into the whole MSA. Like I said Charlotte has Anson in it's MSA, which makes no sense while Iredell and Lincoln are left out and both counties have higher populations than Anson. In the Triangle you may have less counties included in the MSA, and I'm still talking both Raleigh-Durham I never split them into separate MSAs like the census but those counties represent the majority of the population of the Triangle and Wake is physically huge, Charlotte's MSA might have a few more counties but most are small like Durham and Orange. And with Charlotte, southern Iredell has a pretty good portion of the metro population, although it is not included.
Like I said if anything, the Triangle would benefit from the MSA numbers if Raleigh and Durham were combined where as Charlotte would be slightly shortchanged by not including Iredell and Lincoln which are as much a part of the MSA as any other county and moreso than Anson. Even with the numbers in the Triangle's favor it is still smaller by quite a bit, yes the difference doesn't appear to be that much but when u consider, hell we'll go with your CSA of the Triangle at 1.8 million and Charlotte MSA at 1.9 if that's what you said, that is like adding a Cary to the Triangle that would make quite a difference in population.
And since neither city has historically been that large, both are fairly new and up and coming maybe Charlotte had a few years advantage but we're not talking about quite some time like you say, Charlotte deserves the clout. Get back to me when Raleigh-Durham passes Charlotte, which is quite a few years away I think it's fair to say at least a decade if it does happen, and if it doesn't have the "clout" Charlotte does now, then yes you win. Although imo both cities are overrated to begin with, the fact that Charlotte has more "clout" alone should tell you something. You don't have to like Charlotte, there are places I like much better than NC, I was just responding to a simple post based on your opinion and trying to share the facts I did have as fair as possible. They may not be 100% accurate but accurate enough to make my point, it's not just my opinion, it is going by the same data you went by in a way as fair as possible to both cities. If I was trying to play games just to prove a point, then yea I could just throw around the MSA numbers according to the census bureau and it would be no contest.
But I gave the Triangle the credit is it due, the fact is it's still smaller than Charlotte. Both have their assets, they are known for different things nationwide, but by the numbers, Charlotte is larger. Like I said in the future if the Triangle passes Charlotte more power to them there's no point in me trying to knock on them by saying "Charlotte should be larger because..." it wouldn't matter because the Triangle would be larger based on the numbers and with that goes reputation somewhat and amenities and so on and so forth. Things change but right now Charlotte has more clout it is what is.
Ok, I'll play your game and I'll compare RDU CSA to Charlotte's MSA, although I do agree that RDU should be one MSA. So, I am comparing RDU's 7 county CSA to Charlotte's 6 county MSA.
Charlotte: 1.745million, $11.8billion GDP
RDU: 1.6 million, $85billion GDP.
Keeping everything fair RDU has more counties and a smaller population and a smaller GDP. So, as you can see, Charlotte is really a huge economic pull with relatively the same amount of population as RDU. Now, you can cite banking for Charlotte. Some other things you need to cite are medical devices manufacturing, energy infrastructure and production, biotech research(yes it's here playa), textiles, automobile parts manufacturing, wholesale trade and logistics, federal offices (Reserve bank divisional branch, federal circuit court, and FBI office), and the list goes one. Now you can see why banking is only 10%.
This is of no slight to RDU. What RDU is doing is extremely impressive and it should be applauded. It should also be noted that whle RDU is growing at a faster rate than Charlotte, Charlotte is growing bigger. The percentages for RDU's growth is relative to the size of RDU. While numerically Charlotte is adding more people. Also, Salisbury, Statesville, Mooresville, Chester, Lancaster, Shelby, and Lincolnton are very much apart of the Charlotte metro region and rumors have it that some will be added to the MSA.
And let's not act like RDU doesn't have any rural communities that are connected to it. Let's think about Knightdale, Wendale, Garner, Wake Forest, and Oxford and tell me those places are purely suburban.
Damn I wish I had read this post before typing all that, you summed it up better than I could.
Ok, I'll play your game and I'll compare RDU CSA to Charlotte's MSA, although I do agree that RDU should be one MSA. So, I am comparing RDU's 7 county CSA to Charlotte's 6 county MSA.
Charlotte: 1.745million, $11.8billion GDP
RDU: 1.6 million, $85billion GDP.
I think you put a period in the wrong place, LOL.
Quote:
Now, you can cite banking for Charlotte. Some other things you need to cite are medical devices manufacturing, energy infrastructure and production, biotech research(yes it's here playa), textiles, automobile parts manufacturing, wholesale trade and logistics, federal offices (Reserve bank divisional branch, federal circuit court, and FBI office), and the list goes one. Now you can see why banking is only 10%.
While Charlotte obviously has other industries besides banking, we do need to be fair here. A full 27% of the area’s GDP comes from the finance and insurance sector, making Charlotte by far the largest U.S. city to rely so heavily on any one sector.
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Charlotte is still the major transportation and textile hub of the state. Raleigh is the major educational, biopharma, and research hub, second only to Boston. 
