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There is a great Chinese place in Chinatown, LA that serves stunningly good food.
Not the usual vietnamese "fake" chinese-food, but originial cousine.
Pretty cheap too. Can't remember the name of it though, but it's directly in the right direction if you enter Chinatown from the south (?) (Downtown).
The whole pretext of "our Chinese cook better than your Chinese" is rather silly.
Agreed. Why not give credit to the cooks instead of the city?
The underlying assumption here is that the more Chinese restaurants/Chinese people there are in a city, the more "good" restaurants there will be. However, if you take that sort of logic and extend it out, there are also PLENTY of bad ones that drag down the average of everyone else.
Here, I'll put it in mathematical terms.
Let's say City A has 10 Chinese restaurants, and about 6 of them are good and 4 of them are bad. For simplicity sake, lets use the numbers of 1 (bad) and 5 (good) to rate them. 34/10 = mean score of 3.4 with a median of 5. Not great, but better than average.
City B has around 100 Chinese restaurants, around 75 of them are bad and 25 of them are good. The mean score would be a 2 with a median of 5.
City B may have more "good" selections, but also waaaaaaaay more "bad" selections.
Maybe I'm not enough of a food snob to really get it though. I just eat whatever. Maybe its part of being a broke post-grad college student
I'm going off the menu that it has posted online. And the fact that the "award" that it is famous for winning came from USA Today. What is shown online is very typical of fusion and Americanized Chinese. .
The award was not "some USA Today" gimmick. It was a Global award show with chefs from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Canada and Australia which takes place in San Francisco each year (the home of Chinese food in America). Yangming was voted the Best Chinese Restaurant in America out of nearly 45,000. I'd say that means something even though I personally have never eaten there.
And whose to say Chinese food can't evolve over time? Just because the owners may not use the same exact detailed recipes from 300 years ago does not make it "less authentic". Great food cities have restaurants and chefs that are progressive and willing to try different recipes.
The award was not "some USA Today" gimmick. It was a Global award show with chefs from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Canada and Australia which takes place in San Francisco each year (the home of Chinese food in America). Yangming was voted the Best Chinese Restaurant in America out of nearly 45,000. I'd say that means something even though I personally have never eaten there.
The top accolades it presents in order are from CBS Sunday Morning, USA Today, Gourmet Magazine, and Wine Spectator, followed by 3 others that are of the same caliber. Yes, these are definitely gimmicks as you put it, and they hold about as much water as Elle Magazine or Maxim awarding some random Indian place a "best Indian restaurant in the US" award. It doesn't count for much of anything other than advertising. One of the crappiest pizza places in SF (North Beach Pizza) supposedly was voted #1 in SF by Yahoo. It means nothing.
As for that OTHER award you're talking about, there has been plenty of talk debunking what exactly the award is for, who it goes to, and which restaurants are taken into consideration. And your mis-worded paraphrasing from the webpage is misleading; there weren't 45,000 restaurants that were taken into consideration and compared (who the hell would have time to do that?) - there are more than 45,000 Chinese restaurants in America (per their page's info) and the naming of "Best in the US" implies that it is the best out of all 45,000 - which it most definitely is not. But even if there was one single "Best Chinese" restaurant (which would be akin to some Italian restaurant qualifying as "Best Western European Restaurant in the US") the claim that simply labeling it as such "counts for propelling it to the top of 45,000 other restaurants" when the vast majority of those haven't even been visited by any judge, is ridiculous. And misquoting what they said isn't going to change that fact.
I'll just leave some key quotes from several chowhound posters regarding that contest, along with some regarding the restaurant's menu itself:
"Neither criteria nor method of selection were described, but it was an awards event, not an on-site competition."
"The concept of the "best" anything restaurant is a bit difficult and much more so when dealing with a cuisine that's as varied as all of Europe's."
"Regardless of how the menu reads, the pictures provided in their gallery shows me there is only a marginal resemblance to the Chinese food I am accustomed to seeing in the various Chinatowns and Chinese restaurants over the years."
"The dinner menu strikes me as fusion. Portebellas, jalepenos or veal at a Chinese restaurant? Ugh."
"Ah, but was it spicy veal ravioli with jalapeno peppers, ginger and garlic vinaigrette? That's a dish you could serve anywhere, ask what type of restaurant it came from and not get Chinese as an answer."
"I think calling it a "competition" is stretching it.This is run by Chinese Restaurant News - a trade publication, not restaurant owners. I believe it is open to any Chinese restaurant willing to fork over $1,000 and then send their chef to San Francisco. They have many categories, including the top 100 Chinese Restaurants (USA, Canada and Australia) as well as, dare I write it: Buffets!"
"Never been to this Chinese restaurant, but I'm still shaking my head wondering how none of the very respected Chinese eateries in California could even break into the top 10."
"If there ever was a list that could be called contentious, questionable and without merit, I think this is the one."
"This is a pay-to-play list. Chinese Restaurant News, which publishes the list, doesn't even have a dividing wall between its editorial and marketing depts. because it's all marketing. You pay (and subscribe) you get an article written up about you, or your restaraunt."
"Not even worth getting in a tizzy over, the list is so off base. The ones in NorCal include some good ones, but not "the best", as well as some not anywhere close to good quality. One of the latter would be the Sakura buffet in Salinas"
"Some of the restaurants very actively campaign for votes, so having seen signs asking for votes in some restaurants in the past I knew it was kind of shady."
"Nothing more than an advertising medium. In fact many of the SF Bay Area (NorCal) listings belong to some various clubs or associations, quite a few are frequent guests at certain functions, and almost always get coverage by the local Chinese TV station (and newspaper mentions). In some ways it is better that the really great places are not on that list. Too much exposure would just ruin it."
If you look at the restaurants on the Top 100 Chinese List, there are 15 with "Buffet" in the title and three with Japanese names (including "Wasabi Japanese Restaurant" and "Kome Sushi Buffet"). Chinese cuisine almost never has raw vegetables or meat, unlike Japanese cuisine. It's hard to believe three such restaurants could serve better Chinese food than the thousands of Chinese restaurants found in the San Gabriel Valley, New York, San Francisco, or Vancouver.
Suppose a list of the 100 best Philly cheesteak sandwiches in the US contained only 15 restaurants in Philadelphia (with only 2 in the top 10) and 40 of them in California. (and some of them named "California Fusion Cuisine" or "Xiao Wang's Seafood Buffet"). Such a list would be very questionable to even someone who isn't an expert in cheesesteak sandwiches, such as myself."
"Let's say that Californians like Philly cheesesteak sandwiches with thick slices of beef, unmelted gouda cheese, and panini-pressed sourdough. If California restaurants serving this type of sandwhich make up most of the list of top 100 Philly cheesesteak sandwich restaurants in the US, I'm sure many people would say that it's not a true Philly cheesesteak.
That is the problem I have with the list. Chinese cuisine does not normally have all-you-can-eat buffets nor does it have raw foods such as sushi. The person(s) who compiled the list have a strange definition of Chinese food and even stranger definition of "Top 100"."
So to sum up, this contest that the award came from is much like a Miss Chinatown contest - you don't need to be the prettiest or best at anything, all you need to have is a sponsor willing to fork over the most money in order to win. The list of Top 100 consists of good, bad, in between, awful, and not even Chinese. So that award doesn't count for much of anything really. And it shouldn't considering it is claiming to have the best of an entire category of cuisines, not just a single style that would be quantifiable.
China is a country that is almost 5 times the size of the US population-wise; if it wouldn't make sense to compare a US restaurant that was considered the best in Cajun or Southern food to the best chowder house (sorry chowdah) in New England and name it "Best American Restaurant," then how could it possibly make sense to cram all the variety that exists between the various styles of Chinese cooking into one single category with one single restaurant being the victor? It is unrealistic, and meaningless.
However, from what people who have eaten there are saying it sounds as though the food there is very good and it is a very nice place to go to. So as a recommendation for a good time with some great food it sounds as though it is notable. But when searching for the "best Chinese" when it hardly resembles anything Chinese at all, it is not worthy of that label.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a
And whose to say Chinese food can't evolve over time? Just because the owners may not use the same exact detailed recipes from 300 years ago does not make it "less authentic". Great food cities have restaurants and chefs that are progressive and willing to try different recipes.
Very true, just exactly who said it can't? I never said anything about using ancient recipes or Chinese food not evolving. I didn't say, "if it wasn't what the emperor of the Ming Dynasty ate then it is not Chinese." But if you made some Hamburger Helper and threw in some bok choy, would you call that Chinese? You can't just make anything (eg: "Chinese Pizza") and not only have it qualify as "Chinese" but award the place that makes it the "Best Chinese in the US." Its not Chinese food, plain and simple.
If its not what either is consumed in China or derived from a recipe that originated in China, then it is not Chinese and it is not authentic. It could be Chinese-American which is a different category entirely, but it is not Chinese. Panda Express is not authentic Chinese. This shouldn't be this difficult to convey.
Tell me this, would you consider spaghetti that is made with red hot dogs and brown sugar to be "Italian?" That is how the Filipino style of spaghetti is made (there's more to it actually, but those are the main nuances). How do you think an Italian-American from NJ or a dude from Italy would view that recipe? Think THEY would call it "Italian?" How about if a restaurant in Arizona that served it that way, along with dishes like foie gras and swiss chard was awarded "Best Italian Restaurant in the US?" Think Italians and Italian-Americans would consider it as such? See where I'm going with this?
Food only improves by progressing and trying new things. I'm not disputing that. Hell, if Yangming's award was for "Best Thai-Chinese-American Fusion" we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The deliciousness of the food is not in question. Its that it is not actually Chinese, and the thread is regarding the best Chinese food, and that award not only fails to determine that but also misleads people into thinking they're having something that they are not. And the fact that I am having to explain this in such detail just to try and get you on the same page highlights exactly why such an award going to a fusion place is not a good thing.
So yes, I too am all for recipes improving and progressing. But taking part of one thing and adding something from an entirely different region or regions to it is neither developing a recipe further nor is it representing the region of origin. It's creating something entirely different. And if you're a fan of the real deal, then fusion typically isn't going to be your cup of tea.
Yeah you're right. I mean who wants to know where to find the best food? What a ridiculous notion.
The whole pretext of "our pizza and hot dogs are better than your pizza and hot dogs" makes so much more sense.
Yea except a pizza and hot dogs are not an ethnicity or culture , so I am not sure where you are going with that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower
Agreed. Why not give credit to the cooks instead of the city?
The underlying assumption here is that the more Chinese restaurants/Chinese people there are in a city, the more "good" restaurants there will be. However, if you take that sort of logic and extend it out, there are also PLENTY of bad ones that drag down the average of everyone else.
Here, I'll put it in mathematical terms.
Let's say City A has 10 Chinese restaurants, and about 6 of them are good and 4 of them are bad. For simplicity sake, lets use the numbers of 1 (bad) and 5 (good) to rate them. 34/10 = mean score of 3.4 with a median of 5. Not great, but better than average.
City B has around 100 Chinese restaurants, around 75 of them are bad and 25 of them are good. The mean score would be a 2 with a median of 5.
City B may have more "good" selections, but also waaaaaaaay more "bad" selections.
Maybe I'm not enough of a food snob to really get it though. I just eat whatever. Maybe its part of being a broke post-grad college student
Exactly, that is what is so funny. None of these people bantering has actually done some sort of study as to which city has the best, they are just talking out of their you-know-what.
"We've got more Chinese than you and they cook better than your Chinese even though I've never set foot in your city" seems to be the jist of the arguement of certian posters in this thread.
Yea except a pizza and hot dogs are not an ethnicity or culture , so I am not sure where you are going with that one.
Shocker, considering you usually seem so bright and don't have things continuously sail directly over your head.
I'll leave it at that. Its neither important enough to break down to you in remedial terms you can grasp, nor is it worth the effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo
Exactly, that is what is so funny. None of these people bantering has actually done some sort of study as to which city has the best, they are just talking out of their you-know-what.
"We've got more Chinese than you and they cook better than your Chinese even though I've never set foot in your city" seems to be the jist of the arguement of certian posters in this thread.
...and you've effectively missed his point as well.
Good thing you're not participating in any of the uneducated "banter" that you're speaking out against. You have done such a great job of proving how knowledgeable you are on the topic of the thread as well as adding insight to the discussion. Kudos to you, sir.
I don't know how you managed to extract the part in bold from this thread considering people are either stating their preference or comparing from experience, but since when have you ever dealt in reality? So this much is expected.
Your shtick is that people here are babbling about things they only pretend to know - a thought process you have made clear that you closely identify with - while Lifeshadower is discussing credit going to individual cooks rather than the city its patrons are identifying it with. Clearly Lifeshadower's view is beyond your comprehension, but the rest of the thread is about WHERE to find the best Chinese food. Meaning where are the best restaurants located, who excels beyond the norm, etc. Not, "I've never been to any other city at all, but our Chinese are better because we have more of them." If that's all you've managed to take from this thread at all then I pity you even more than I already do.
Not that there hasn't been an element of that in here. But obviously that is not what everyone in here is doing. There is something to the notion that a substantial community of a particular ethnicity is more likely to produce a better selection or better renditions of that ethnic group's food, but that is definitely not a rule. Most people seem to agree that the numbers thing works in NYC's favor in many cases, particularly in the case of Caribbean or Italian food. But that hasn't prevented the existence of an outstanding Jamaican spot about 12 miles from where I live, nor does it mean that there couldn't be the best single Caribbean restaurant of any sort in the US in any random location, so there are exceptions to that rule.
Another exception to that rule would be Chicago from what I hear (can't speak for myself b/c I've never been there outside of the airports). It seems people do not consider the Mexican food there to be very good, even though they have the second-largest Mexican population of any US city IIRC. Which if true is rather pathetic, but it holds true to the fact that the numbers don't determine everything. Which is exactly what Lifeshadower was attempting to illustrate, while sadly all you took from it was a validation of your stance that people here were just rambling without knowing anything and ONLY fixating on things being better based on numbers.
Shocker, considering you usually seem so bright and don't have things continuously sail directly over your head.
I'll leave it at that. Its neither important enough to break down to you in remedial terms you can grasp, nor is it worth the effort.
...and you've effectively missed his point as well.
Good thing you're not participating in any of the uneducated "banter" that you're speaking out against. You have done such a great job of proving how knowledgeable you are on the topic of the thread as well as adding insight to the discussion. Kudos to you, sir.
I don't know how you managed to extract the part in bold from this thread considering people are either stating their preference or comparing from experience, but since when have you ever dealt in reality? So this much is expected.
Your shtick is that people here are babbling about things they only pretend to know - a thought process you have made clear that you closely identify with - while Lifeshadower is discussing credit going to individual cooks rather than the city its patrons are identifying it with. Clearly Lifeshadower's view is beyond your comprehension, but the rest of the thread is about WHERE to find the best Chinese food. Meaning where are the best restaurants located, who excels beyond the norm, etc. Not, "I've never been to any other city at all, but our Chinese are better because we have more of them." If that's all you've managed to take from this thread at all then I pity you even more than I already do.
Not that there hasn't been an element of that in here. But obviously that is not what everyone in here is doing. There is something to the notion that a substantial community of a particular ethnicity is more likely to produce a better selection or better renditions of that ethnic group's food, but that is definitely not a rule. Most people seem to agree that the numbers thing works in NYC's favor in many cases, particularly in the case of Caribbean or Italian food. But that hasn't prevented the existence of an outstanding Jamaican spot about 12 miles from where I live, nor does it mean that there couldn't be the best single Caribbean restaurant of any sort in the US in any random location, so there are exceptions to that rule.
Another exception to that rule would be Chicago from what I hear (can't speak for myself b/c I've never been there outside of the airports). It seems people do not consider the Mexican food there to be very good, even though they have the second-largest Mexican population of any US city IIRC. Which if true is rather pathetic, but it holds true to the fact that the numbers don't determine everything. Which is exactly what Lifeshadower was attempting to illustrate, while sadly all you took from it was a validation of your stance that people here were just rambling without knowing anything and ONLY fixating on things being better based on numbers.
Right, which is why lifeshadower starts his post with a quote of me followed with "I agree". Yea I totally don't get what he is saying. HAHAHA
The second bolded illustrates the point I made earlier. People who have not been to the places who's cuisine they try to talk down. Please continue to bless us with your second hand information. Heh.
Right, which is why lifeshadower starts his post with a quote of me followed with "I agree". Yea I totally don't get what he is saying. HAHAHA
The second bolded illustrates the point I made earlier. People who have not been to the places who's cuisine they try to talk down. Please continue to bless us with your second hand information. Heh.
Yes, because he didn't qualify what he "agreed" with to show that it went beyond the point you were making. Nope, he said word for word that he "wholeheartedly agreed with exactly what your point was." SMH. Man, is this seriously how you get through your days? Cherry-picking words from whatever people say to create the illusion you all are on the same page?
You sure I didn't "agree" with you too when I said this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman650
Yeah you're right. I mean who wants to know where to find the best food? What a ridiculous notion.
I mean YOU clearly "agreed" with everyone throughout the course of this thread when you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo
our Chinese cook better than your ChineseI amsure. people actually study which city has the best. We've got more Chinese than you and they cook better than your Chinese even though I've never set foot in your city
That sure is an ignorant mentality you displayed! See how that works?
Actually I don't even need to explain this to you because obviously you already "agreed" with me in your first word of the post by saying I was, "right." LMAO!
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