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Dallas and Houston aren't growing in TOD really because they don't really have a system to do so. The inner suburbs which is mainly what I'm talking about for D.C. (seeing as how D.C. is already one of the most urban cities in the nation and can't grow any other way) are growing through major TOD development only. How can Dallas and Houston grow that way without rail transit in the suburbs?
I know this isn't about Dallas or Houston but they absolutely do have LRT that extends out to the suburbs.
I'm just saying that outside of those corridors the vast majority of the area (outside of DC) is car-dependent.
Bethesda, North Bethesda, Twinbrooke, Rockville, and Gaithersburg are developing to be just like that corridor. Tyson's Corner, Reston, Herndon are also developing to be like that corridor. Langley Park, College Park, New Carrolton, River Dale etc. will also develop like those corridors.
The NYC metro area is also very car dependent like every metro area in the this country. The point I am focusing on which none of you seem to be focusing on is the urban corridors that are developing around D.C.'s suburbs which also without an urban system like Metro with premium 3-5 minute frequency in the suburbs that stretches far from the city is not feasible anywhere else.
You all seem to have this notion you have imagined in your head where I have said 200 metro legs will radiate out of D.C. as all suburban subdivisions in the area are turned to urban living. What are you talking about? Whoever said the majority wasn't car dependent? Aren't I the one who posted the population share numbers. Don't you think since I posted the 10% ridership share in D.C. probably means I know more than any of you about ridership share and how many people use transit of the total population? I'm the one who posted the numbers to begin with.
Dallas and Houston aren't growing in TOD really because they don't really have a system to do so. The inner suburbs which is mainly what I'm talking about for D.C. (seeing as how D.C. is already one of the most urban cities in the nation and can't grow any other way) are growing through major TOD development only. How can Dallas and Houston grow that way without rail transit in the suburbs?
Agree their transit is awful but almost all current develop in their cores is also multi unit dwellings. They just drive for the most part. Their long term planning is more problematic but in their core the develop styling is quite comparable on many levels sans PT
Also DC has both TOD and non TOD in the burbs, you cant deny that. If you say only core areas they too are multi unit
In their burbs they are a combination like DC just way more haphazzard. DC is building high density in the TOD corriders and tract housing in non tod burbs. Houston is more ahadgepodge of both with more highways. I prefer the DC model far more personally but DC may have as much single units as Houston going up up quite honestly
I know this isn't about Dallas or Houston but they absolutely do have LRT that extends out to the suburbs.
Are you really trying to compare the TOD we have in D.C. and the TOD we are building in D.C. to the TOD Houston and Dallas have and what they are building in their region? Come on man...you can't be serious..... Developers don't even build the same type of development with light rail as they build with heavy rail to begin with. This is apples and oranges.
Take a look at the specifics for Mid Pike Plaza that breaks ground this spring posted today which is only one of five different sectors with a different developer for each that is being built at the White Flint Metro station on the Red Metro Line
Are you really trying to compare what we have and what we are building in D.C. to what Houston and Dallas have and what they are building? Come on man...you can't be serious.....
When did I say that they are comparable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
How can Dallas and Houston grow that way without rail transit in the suburbs?
Just answering that question. Obviously it is much worse than DC (and much worse than LA for that matter).
Agree their transit is awful but almost all current develop in their cores is also multi unit dwellings. They just drive for the most part. Their long term planning is more problematic but in their core the develop styling is quite comparable on many levels sans PT
Also DC has both TOD and non TOD in the burbs, you cant deny that. If you say only core areas they too are multi unit
In their burbs they are a combination like DC just way more haphazzard. DC is building high density in the TOD corriders and tract housing in non tod burbs. Houston is more ahadgepodge of both with more highways. I prefer the DC model far more personally but DC may have as much single units as Houston going up up quite honestly
Why are you talking about the core city? I have been talking about the suburbs the entire time. Once again, what are you talking about? I assume you guys were talking about what I had said since you guys quoted my posts. Problem is, I was never talking about the core. The suburb Metro legs are what is differentiating D.C. from everywhere else. Also, where is this major housing building you keep referring too in the inner core suburbs in D.C.? How many units of single family housing are being built total?
I have always and ONLY been talking about Metro rail TOD housing and as I expected, you didn't reply to my posts about you being completely off topic and rambling on and on about a topic and conversation I never had with you. You were having it with yourself.
Why are you talking about the core city? I have been talking about the suburbs the entire time. Once again, what are you talking about? I assume you guys were talking about what I had said since you guys quoted my posts. Problem is, I was never talking about the core. The suburb Metro legs are what is differentiating D.C. from everywhere else. Also, where is this major housing building you keep referring too in the inner core suburbs in D.C.? How many units of single family housing are being built total?
I have always and ONLY been talking about Metro rail TOD housing and as I expected, you didn't reply to my posts about you being completely off topic and rambling on and on about a topic and conversation I never had with you. You were having it with yourself.
I think he is saying DC is far from special in this regard. Most large urban areas are only building TOD or at least multi-family housing within the city and in the inner suburbs.
Why are you talking about the core city? I have been talking about the suburbs the entire time. Once again, what are you talking about? I assume you guys were talking about what I had said since you guys quoted my posts. Problem is, I was never talking about the core. The suburb Metro legs are what is differentiating D.C. from everywhere else. Also, where is this major housing building you keep referring too in the inner core suburbs in D.C.? How many units of single family housing are being built total?
I have always and ONLY been talking about Metro rail TOD housing and as I expected, you didn't reply to my posts about you being completely off topic and rambling on and on about a topic and conversation I never had with you. You were having it with yourself.
Again read back I am talking about the metro area not the core
The burbs on the whole are single family with multi unit along the TODs which is always and always has been my point
What I diagree with is your continued statements and proclomation that this TOD development is all that taking place in DC as a mtro, just not even remotely the case.
In terms of comparative other city dense cores, the styiling is basically the same. DC has planned nbetter corriders driven by jobs (not people) and these jobs are driven by the govt. But yes very well planned along the Metro (have always agreed) but again you act like multi unit, even TOD developemnt is unique to DC, it isnt, more planned yes (wont go down the raod of will it all be built)
When you say is one giant TOD development and that all growth is coming in these areas it just is flat out untrue and my points continually.
Arlinton added 18K in a decade; a good number but the sprawled burbs added probably 6 or 7 seven people to every one in these corriders
Again read back I am talking about the metro area not the core
The burbs on the whole are single family with multi unit along the TODs which is always and always has been my point
What I diagree with is your continued statements and proclomation that this TOD development is all that taking place in DC as a mtro, just not even remotely the case.
In terms of comparative other city dense cores, the styiling is basically the same. DC has planned nbetter corriders driven by jobs (not people) and these jobs are driven by the govt. But yes very well planned along the Metro (have always agreed) but again you act like multi unit, even TOD developemnt is unique to DC, it isnt, more planned yes (wont go down the raod of will it all be built)
When you say is one giant TOD development and that all growth is coming in these areas it just is flat out untrue and my points continually.
Arlinton added 18K in a decade; a good number but the sprawled burbs added probably 6 or 7 seven people to every one in these corriders
-Arlington County has 26 total miles.
-Loudon County has 526 total miles.
And you are wondering why Arlington only grew by 18,000?
I'm still waiting on the single family subdivision home construction in the inner core which you conviently left out.
I"M GOING TO SAY THIS FOR THE LAST TIME!
You were talking about what is already built in D.C. Why were you talking about it since I was not and really don't care? Also, why do you keep talking about growth in Loudon county and points outward? I don't care if they add 5 million people. What does that have to do with the inner core funneling their growth into urban corridors on transit lines like Arlington did with their 18,000? Montgomery, Fairfax, Arlington Alexandria plan to do the same thing. What will that do? Exactly what I have been talking about all day! Creating a more urban premium transit living experience in the suburbs that will not be able to be duplicated anywhere else. Of-course, that is unless you plan to build subways with 3-5 minute premium peak service in the suburbs surrounding your cities.
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