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Which are more centered around urban downtowns? How lively are those downtowns? Which have better public transportation? Street level vibrancy? Big city "feel"? Most compact metros? Etc...
And which do you prefer in the end?
P.S. for the purposes of this thread, Chicago is not being included in the "upper midwest" category.
Upper Midwest, definitely (but Detroit doesn't really count). Vancouver, Washington isn't urban at all -- it's like a suburb of Portland. Even Portland can't compare to Minneapolis or St. Paul. Milwaukee seems really urban for a city its size. Detroit is definitely "urban" and gritty, but not really Upper Midwestern. The only thing the PNW has to compare is Seattle.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot
Upper Midwest, definitely (but Detroit doesn't really count). Vancouver, Washington isn't urban at all -- it's like a suburb of Portland. Even Portland can't compare to Minneapolis or St. Paul. Milwaukee seems really urban for a city its size. Detroit is definitely "urban" and gritty, but not really Upper Midwestern. The only thing the PNW has to compare is Seattle.
I disagree. And anyone who has taken an Urban Planning class in college knows this because although compact cities aren't everything but Portland is regarded to as THE model city for urban planning. Almost mass sprawl resistant entirely actually.
It shares traits of the Midwestern cities, New England cities, & Sunbelt cities all rolled into one. It's the only city in the country to do that so far in large city developments. And people overlook it but its actually quite urban, walkable, and it has an effective transit system for its size.
Why shouldn't Detroit count? It's the largest urban area between both regions. Yes much of the city is decayed but that doesn't stop its affluent suburbs that do see a lot of action from withering away. Detroit is being underestimated here, if it were to revitalize its city proper more it would definitely lead the pack for both of these regions easily. Downtown Detroit is seeing improvements, which is a good sign.
Seattle is the leader for the Pacific Northwest, and its the largest urban center there but we're also underestimating Vancouver here which is an EXTREMELY compact and walkable city, very good level of development and lots of affluent areas. It would probably equal out with Minneapolis here.
I say both regions are a draw actually, both have some advantages, because urbanity is more than one basic element, giving lots of set criteria that go in favor of either region. It's hard to tell.
Personally, I think Portland's lack of sprawl takes away from the city / metro area. Of course, I like suburban growth ("sprawl") and think it adds a great deal to a community. If Portland allowed sprawl it would have a larger footprint. Cities like Minneapolis, St. Paul and Atlanta are important largely because of their suburban rings.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot
Detroit isn't geographically in the Upper Midwest. I've always though of the Upper Midwest as being MN, WI, ND, SD and the UP.
Yeah, Detroit makes up the Great Lakes Region I believe but Minneapolis gets left out then. I guess the original poster just meant to say compare these given cities. It's okay, I knew what he meant by the comparison, and I do agree with the following criteria too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot
Which Vancouver are you talking about? I know Vancouver, Washington in no way compares to Minneapolis. Vancouver, British Columbia does, but it's in Canada so it doesn't count.
Nahh, no one cares about Vancouver, WA (sarcasm of course) more than Vancouver, Canada enough to include it in this comparison per say. There is one true Vancouver, and its in Canada. I am almost entirely positive the original poster meant Vancouver, Canada, but we'll have to wait until he logs back on to find out for sure. But I am 110% certain he meant the one in Canada for this comparison. It's the northern Nexis of this region, country borders don't really matter in this comparison as they rarely do on City-Data either ways with Canada.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot
Personally, I think Portland's lack of sprawl takes away from the city / metro area. Of course, I like suburban growth ("sprawl") and think it adds a great deal to a community. If Portland allowed sprawl it would have a larger footprint. Cities like Minneapolis, St. Paul and Atlanta are important largely because of their suburban rings.
Yeah, but the same can be said for Boston. Which has a stronger urban core than Atlanta. Boston is very minimized sprawl in terms of proximate area, and Portland is derived from that concept quite nicely but enhanced more so on its own implementations.
I am no fan of density, I think hyper density sucks, despite living in Chicago, I was never accustomed to the rat race lifestyle that derived from it. But it does have its advantages here in this case for urbanity overall.
Doesn't count in what sense? He basically asked which geographical area's more urban. I don't think he means Van WA.
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