Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wait, what? You think Atlanta is vulnerable because of all those cities you named, yet DFW isn't even though it is in the same STATE as Houston, Austin, and San Antonio??? That makes absolutely no sense to me. As Texas proves, one city making major strides doesn't have to come at the expense of another city.
Well it's first and foremost about the economy and since Miami easily has the smallest middle class of the bunch with a much smaller knowledge-based economy, I'm nit really seeing it. But as globalization continues to run rampant, Miami will certainly benefit there with its Latin American connections.
Yeah it sucks at marketing/branding and that's important for Sunbelt cities without legacy institutions with big name recognition (colleges/universities, sports teams, cultural venues, etc).
Yes, it sounds funny, but Houston drives DFW growth. That huge port in Houston supports the massive distribution industry in DFW. A lot of the containers that come in from the port is placed on a train and sent to DFW for storage and distribution. Houston would be bigger if it handled more of its own logistics but yes, DFW has always been fueled by the growth of the other cities in Texas. ATL not so much because it doesn't share a similar dynamic. You don't see charlotte, Birmingham, etc becoming more attractive as the strain of a fast growing population weighs on ATL?
Yeah, i know it's 1st and foremost the economy, but Miami is in a good position to grow it's international economy.
Houston is working on its image problem. You can see it from its highway beautification plans to developing galveston beaches. It's a slow process but they are starting to market more.
It's true. Dallas largely serves as the state's bank and gateway to the rest of the nation, but all the real work is done in Houston, which is the state's gateway to the globe.
San Antonio is the "exotic" military/tourism hub, and Austin is just the spoiled brat that benefits from everyone.
Atlanta has a big City feel to it definitely. I lived in that metro area back in 95-96, and the expansion of it is super. I still think that it gets more credit than it should though, because the core city hasnt passed a million people, but Houston and Dallas surpassed that.
It's true. Dallas largely serves as the state's bank and gateway to the rest of the nation, but all the real work is done in Houston, which is the state's gateway to the globe.
San Antonio is the "exotic" military/tourism hub, and Austin is just the spoiled brat that benefits from everyone.
Well Austin is the primary legislative seat and benefits from the huge college presence.
San Antonios southern credentials came from being a cotton town. It's plantations contributed to DFW growth as the crops were harvested and sent to DFW to be shipped elsewhere.
Houston was also a major cotton town. But was the gateway city connecting the state to the world.
Dallas has always been the processing area for the states produce. Fort Worth was the same for cattle.
Yes, it sounds funny, but Houston drives DFW growth. That huge port in Houston supports the massive distribution industry in DFW. A lot of the containers that come in from the port is placed on a train and sent to DFW for storage and distribution. Houston would be bigger if it handled more of its own logistics but yes, DFW has always been fueled by the growth of the other cities in Texas. ATL not so much because it doesn't share a similar dynamic. You don't see charlotte, Birmingham, etc becoming more attractive as the strain of a fast growing population weighs on ATL?
You seem to be arguing against your original point. From what you've just stated, obviously Houston is MUCH more of a threat to DFW than Charlotte, Nashville, Birmingham, etc. are to Atlanta as those cities don't have that sort of relationship with Atlanta.
Obviously there are strains that come along with rapid growth and Atlanta is behind the curve with respect to that, but it has the most extensive HRT system in the South with extensions planned and other transit additions. That's attractive to companies locating to the area as many have decided to set up shop near MARTA stations. In that respect, Charlotte is probably the only other city that can offer some similar advantage but it has in-state competition to worry about as well. Atlanta does have the benefit of being the only major player in its state.
Quote:
Yeah, i know it's 1st and foremost the economy, but Miami is in a good position to grow it's international economy.
True but without the domestic component, I don't see how it truly prospers.
Quote:
Houston is working on its image problem. You can see it from its highway beautification plans to developing galveston beaches. It's a slow process but they are starting to market more.
Well Austin is the primary legislative seat and benefits from the huge college presence.
San Antonios southern credentials came from being a cotton town. It's plantations contributed to DFW growth as the crops were harvested and sent to DFW to be shipped elsewhere.
Houston was also a major cotton town. But was the gateway city connecting the state to the world.
Dallas has always been the processing area for the states produce. Fort Worth was the same for cattle.
Which is largely funded by oil money. I had it right the first time.
You seem to be arguing against your original point. From what you've just stated, obviously Houston is MUCH more of a threat to DFW than Charlotte, Nashville, Birmingham, etc. are to Atlanta as those cities don't have that sort of relationship with Atlanta.
Obviously there are strains that come along with rapid growth and Atlanta is behind the curve with respect to that, but it has the most extensive HRT system in the South with extensions planned and other transit additions. That's attractive to companies locating to the area as many have decided to set up shop near MARTA stations. In that respect, Charlotte is probably the only other city that can offer some similar advantage but it has in-state competition to worry about as well. Atlanta does have the benefit of being the only major player in its state.
True but without the domestic component, I don't see how it truly prospers.
Time will tell.
Nope, Houston drives DFW growth, it does not hurt it. When Houston grows, DFW grows, when Houston slows DFW slows. Houston's economy however is not dependent on DFW so the reverse is not true.
The dynamic is not the same in the SE. The only similarities are between Savannah and Atlanta. But Atlanta and it's neighbors are in direct competition with each other.
ATL is the major player in its state, but state lines are arbitrary. Birmingham, Nashville and Charlotte are closer to ATL than DFW is to houston.
Now if Houston digs deeper into the logistics Game I can see it poaching some of DFWs thunder, but all in all they perform different functions for the state.
ATL central location caused it to benefit from consolidation in the railway and airline industries.
Same thing with DFW.
But Houston railway network is no match for DFW and DFW domestic air network serves a much broader spectrum than Houston's.
Again DFW grows because it is location based. ATL is location based too, but surrounded by cities more than willing to take a share of the opportunity arises.
Charlotte could easily have been the big airline hub for the area. Birmingham could have easily been the railroad hub.
Exactly.
People are getting indignant at the notion of a a 1 million metro feeling bigger than 6 to 7 million metros in SOME aspects.
When you look at job market, there is no way NO compares.
When you look at airport destinations, no way NO compares.
When you look at skyscrappers, New highways, New mega developments, no it does not compare.
When you look at driving across a metro that gored in forever, no it does not compare.
But pick 10 random spots in each metro and I can bet you that more often than not the ones from NO would feel more urban than the others. It had been a big mature city for longer than the others so yes it going to feel more urban in the traditional sense.
Overall New Orleans does not feel bigger than the big 4, but on the street level it surpasses all of them.
My pet peeve is that people think you step out of the quarter and fall into Katy. The development style changes but building density does not drop off like it does in the others.
I love walking. I criss cross the city of New Orleans when I'm there, and some of the burbs. South of the the River in burbs like gretna the area is built like the denser areas of SW Houston. Metairie to me is a bit denser, more like the denser parts of inner loop Houston. To me, it's hard to tell where NO ends and Metairie begins.
That's right, Metairie and Kenner is denser than parts of Houston outside of the loop, probably similar to many areas in the loop. And that's not even in the same parish (county) as New Orleans. Same with Gretna, Harvey, and Marrero, could easily be parts of 2nd or 3rd wards in Houston. The only parts of the NO metro that look like Katy is the northshore of Lake Pontchartrain.
That's right, Metairie and Kenner is denser than parts of Houston outside of the loop, probably similar to many areas in the loop. And that's not even in the same parish (county) as New Orleans. Same with Gretna, Harvey, and Marrero, could easily be parts of 2nd or 3rd wards in Houston. The only parts of the NO metro that look like Katy is the northshore of Lake Pontchartrain.
It's not even necessary to go to the other parishes. Gentilly, the West Bank and many lakeside hoods have comparable density to the average inner loop district. NO East could be practically anywhere within Beltway 8.
The Northshore equivalent would be the Northeast/Lake Houston area. Katy just reminds me of DFW.
Nope, Houston drives DFW growth, it does not hurt it. When Houston grows, DFW grows, when Houston slows DFW slows. Houston's economy however is not dependent on DFW so the reverse is not true.
The dynamic is not the same in the SE. The only similarities are between Savannah and Atlanta. But Atlanta and it's neighbors are in direct competition with each other.
ATL is the major player in its state, but state lines are arbitrary. Birmingham, Nashville and Charlotte are closer to ATL than DFW is to houston.
Now if Houston digs deeper into the logistics Game I can see it poaching some of DFWs thunder, but all in all they perform different functions for the state.
Your last paragraph says it all. None of the other Southeastern cities are a threat to Atlanta logistically, at least not in a major way. Birmingham isn't a competitor to Atlanta; Charlotte and Nashville are to an extent but they don't supply Atlanta with any logistics business like Houston does for DFW. Truthfully the cities that compete with Atlanta for eco-devo projects also tend to compete with DFW; all tend to be on the short list for certain projects.
Quote:
ATL central location caused it to benefit from consolidation in the railway and airline industries.
Same thing with DFW.
But Houston railway network is no match for DFW and DFW domestic air network serves a much broader spectrum than Houston's.
And Atlanta specializes in both in the Southeast. Again, I don't see the logic in your argument that says that other regional cities are more of a threat to Atlanta than DFW.
Quote:
Again DFW grows because it is location based. ATL is location based too, but surrounded by cities more than willing to take a share of the opportunity arises.
Charlotte could easily have been the big airline hub for the area. Birmingham could have easily been the railroad hub.
You're wrong on both counts. Atlanta's local airport received lots of federal investment during WWII and Mayor Hartsfield was a major player in taking the airport to the next level. Those circumstances didn't exist in Charlotte, nor was Charlotte on the radar for Delta's relocation from Louisiana back in the day. As far as the railroad goes, Birmingham's geography works against it, being flanked by ridges and valleys. Atlanta is along the Eastern Continental Divide which provides the least amount of elevational changes, making it easy to connect Southern markets with Northern ones; that's why it boomed as a railroad hub. Atlanta is smack dab in the center of the Southeast and will remain the major hub of the region for the forseeable future.
Other Southeastern cities, namely Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville, and Orlando all have elements of what caused and subsequently sustained Atlanta's rapid growth: Charlotte has banking and logistics, Raleigh has higher ed/tech, Nashville has healthcare and music, Orlando has hospitality. But none of them have all of those elements, plus HRT which has historically and presently serves as an economic development tool.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
