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If you're going to single out Iowa as having "awesome college towns" but not say anything good about Kansas (and misspell Wichita by the way), I must point out that Kansas has just as many "awesome" college towns as Iowa. In fact, college towns in both states are much the same. Kansas has Lawrence, home of the University of Kansas, and Manhattan, home of Kansas State University. These two cities compare very well to Iowa City and Ames. They are about the same size, in fact I believe Lawrence is slightly larger than Iowa City, and Manhattan is about the same size as Ames. The universities in those cities are also about the same size.
And since so many people on this forum value being "blue" and liberal, Lawrence is a very liberal city. Douglas County, Kansas, where Lawrence is located, gave a higher percentage of the vote to Barack Obama in 2008 than ANY other county in Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, or Oklahoma. So basically, Lawrence, Kansas is the most liberal place in Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, or Oklahoma. So there's that. I just think that it's sad that someone would think that Iowa has "awesome college towns" (referring most likely to Iowa City), but not even think of mentioning Lawrence or Manhattan, Kansas. Maybe this person is not even aware of Lawrence and Manhattan. And that is sad.
As for the rest of Kansas, Wichita has a clean, neat downtown with nightlife, entertainment, parks, museums, businesses. I really think comparing these cities like Des Moines, Omaha, Wichita, Tulsa is very subjective. You can use all kinds of criteria to judge them, and that criteria is going to be based on what you personally like and value. So you can't say one city is better than another. It's all subjective. I can point out some things that people might not know. Wichita has a large public university close to the central part of town, Wichita State University, which is something that Tulsa, Oklahoma City, and Des Moines don't have (the main universities in those cities are all smaller private schools). Wichita also has two very good level one trauma center hosptials near downtown, Wesley Medical Center and Via Christi St. Francis.
There are nice parks and riverwalk areas along the Arkansas River in downtown Wichita. And yes there are urban neighborhoods in Wichita, like College Hill and Riverside. It was mentioned that Des Moines and Omaha have urban neighborhoods, as if these don't exist in Wichita. Riverside is a very nice urban neighborhood in Wichita, in a park, near the river, with all kinds of recreation around. Another thing people may not know is that Wichita just finished a multi-million dollar project to elevate all the railroad crossings in their downtown area, so all railroad traffic is elevated. There is a renovated warehouse district in downtown Wichita called Old Town that is the main nightlife district.
Wichita also has a downtown arena called Intrust Bank Arena, which seats about 17,000. There is a nice 1,000 seat historic theater called the Orpheum. A lot of other historic architecture in downtown Wichita like the Broadview Hotel, Scottish Rite Temple, etc. One main drawback, if you want to call it that, about downtown Wichita is that the buildings, for some reason, are not very tall, which gives the impression that the city is smaller than it is. The tallest building is about 300 feet tall. Downtown Wichita is very well laid out, clean, and easy to navigate. It has a human feel. Some downtowns feel closed-in with narrow streets and tall buildings casting shadows. Downtown Wichita has more of an open feel with wider streets and wide, short buildings.
The rural areas in Kansas are beautiful. Western Kansas is breathtaking with the wide-open expanses. There is nothing like gazing out over a field of wheat in western Kansas, being able to see for miles fields of wheat waving in the wind with maybe a car passing on a distant highway or a tall white grain elevator.
Another thing about Kansas is, 40% of the Kansas City metro area is in Kansas. It's the suburban part. But some of the better suburbs like Overland Park, which has been rated one of the best cities in America in which to live. People don't know with the bad rap that Kansas gets about education, that Johnson County, Kansas is one of the most educated counties in America, with about 50% of the residents there holding a bachelor's degree. Johnson County is the largest county in Kansas.
It's hard to explain Kansas to people that don't know anything about it. And frankly based on what I've read on this forum over the years I think most people are inclined to be biased against Kansas to begin with. So not only do I have to explain Kansas to people that don't know anything about it, but I have to correct misconceptions and work against biases that people already have. I really can't do that by myself on this forum. I wish people would educate themselves more by reading and studying about Kansas if they don't know about it.
I would rank these five states in this order. I'm putting Iowa first because, actually I like Iowa better than Kansas, even though I like Kansas as well. I like them both very much.
Seriously, don't attack me because I didn't mention much about your beloved Kansas. Hell, I could have left it off the damn poll. I was interested in it, that is why I listed it. I have only driven through Kansas and never got to explore, that is why I never mentioned it in my original post. You will even noticed I ask what Wichita was like. It wasn't that I "didn't say anything good" about Kansas. It is just I don't know much about the place. Creating this thread was to get peoples' opinions on the states and get a better idea of life in them. The poll was actually closer than I thought it would be.
Differance is, I have been to Iowa, and I know what cities like Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Davenport, etc offered. I have also been to Ames and Iowa City. Drake and University of Northern Iowa were great.
So if you are going to come in here and complain because I didn't mention Kansas, than don't even bother commenting in here. I don't have time for people who are going to cry because they feel the need to defend a place 24/7 and get ticked at people who don't describe a place they would have liked someone to. I made this thread to be conversive and enlightening. I really liked Kansas' roads compared to Missouri's. But I didn't have time to make a pit stop in Lawrence, Manhattan, Topeka, and Wichita. Someday I would like to, and hopefully be able to defend Kansas against the many perceptions that are out there.
I would vote for Minnesota, but it's not on this list. I think a lot of people forget that 1/3 of Minnesota is on the Plains. I live there. This part of Minnesota looks like a colder version of Nebraska or Kansas -- beautiful big sky and prairie. There's also no North Dakota or South Dakota, which I would choose over any of the states on this list (except maybe Iowa).
Seriously, don't attack me because I didn't mention much about your beloved Kansas. Hell, I could have left it off the damn poll. I was interested in it, that is why I listed it. I have only driven through Kansas and never got to explore, that is why I never mentioned it in my original post. You will even noticed I ask what Wichita was like. It wasn't that I "didn't say anything good" about Kansas. It is just I don't know much about the place. Creating this thread was to get peoples' opinions on the states and get a better idea of life in them. The poll was actually closer than I thought it would be.
Differance is, I have been to Iowa, and I know what cities like Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Davenport, etc offered. I have also been to Ames and Iowa City. Drake and University of Northern Iowa were great.
So if you are going to come in here and complain because I didn't mention Kansas, than don't even bother commenting in here. I don't have time for people who are going to cry because they feel the need to defend a place 24/7 and get ticked at people who don't describe a place they would have liked someone to. I made this thread to be conversive and enlightening. I really liked Kansas' roads compared to Missouri's. But I didn't have time to make a pit stop in Lawrence, Manhattan, Topeka, and Wichita. Someday I would like to, and hopefully be able to defend Kansas against the many perceptions that are out there.
I made a few mentions of your comments because I thought you could have said more about Kansas than "what's Wichita like, lol", when you gave all the other states large intros. But 95% of my comment was doing exactly what you want: talking about some of the good things in Kansas.
I don't understand how you can list Tulsa but not Omaha. They're roughly about the same size giving Nebraska one city at least to go against Oklahoma's.
Yeah Omaha's corporate culture is impressive, and it is definitely comparable to Tulsa- but that still leaves OKC unanswered.
What about the natural attractions in Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa? I know the Ozarks and Mississippi River in Missouri are great, and KS and NE might have some interesting landscapes in the west. Iowa has some really beautiful rivers.
But Oklahoma has 11 EPA ecoregions, tied with Texas and only behind Alaska and California. You can drive through the state in one day and literally see sand dunes like the Sahara, salt flats like the Dead Sea, swamps like the Gulf, forested hills and rivers like the Ozarks, mesas like the southwest, waterfalls, truly enormous lakes, and flat to rolling prairies. You can also visit 39 sovereign nations within the boundaries of Oklahoma. To me, it just seems like Oklahoma is one of the most diverse states (environmentally, culturally, and ethnically) in this region and that sets it apart from the other Plains states.
I made a few mentions of your comments because I thought you could have said more about Kansas than "what's Wichita like, lol", when you gave all the other states large intros. But 95% of my comment was doing exactly what you want: talking about some of the good things in Kansas.
I made it pretty evident that I didn't know much about Kansas. You want me to talk about the few hours that I drove through the state? You got upset when I didn't mention what you wanted me to (i.e colleges, cities, topograhpy). I wasn't going to leave it off the list because it clearly fits in with the other states in the poll. Yes, you were talking about the topic at hand, but you also made it a point to state that I didn't mention Kansas. It is the only state out of the five that I haven't been to and actually explored. Maybe I should have just made stuff up as I went along. I didn't give them "long intros", either. I just wrote a sentence or few sentences describing each state from what I knew. Next time I have interest in the Great Plain states, I will make it a point to leave Kansas out.
I love Nebraska, it has the best education, safety, and is home to the college world series. Most importantly the Hanry Doorly Zoo is the best zoo in the entire world (fact)
Location: Midwesterner living in California (previously East Coast)
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Kansas has one very big town called Wichita (I wouldnt even call it a city). I visit Wichita every couple of weeks for work. Nothing special whatsoever. Then Kansas also has sprawling suburbia attached to the KCMO Metro called Johnson County. That area is comparable to other parts of suburbia USA. Lawrence (college town of KU) is lovely. However, most of Kansas is rural and small towns.
Oklahoma, Iowa, and Nebraska also share very similar demographic traits with Kansas. A couple of college towns, one larger metro area, one big town, lots of rural/small towns.
Missouri would be ranked higher because it has two large cities, a handful of big towns, some college towns, plus it has more diversity across the board.
If we are evaluating states by size, Missouri should be grouped with Indiana, Wisconsin, or Minnesota. That would be a fairer ranking
Location: Midwesterner living in California (previously East Coast)
296 posts, read 437,817 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Earth
If you're going to single out Iowa as having "awesome college towns" but not say anything good about Kansas (and misspell Wichita by the way), I must point out that Kansas has just as many "awesome" college towns as Iowa. In fact, college towns in both states are much the same. Kansas has Lawrence, home of the University of Kansas, and Manhattan, home of Kansas State University. These two cities compare very well to Iowa City and Ames. They are about the same size, in fact I believe Lawrence is slightly larger than Iowa City, and Manhattan is about the same size as Ames. The universities in those cities are also about the same size.
And since so many people on this forum value being "blue" and liberal, Lawrence is a very liberal city. Douglas County, Kansas, where Lawrence is located, gave a higher percentage of the vote to Barack Obama in 2008 than ANY other county in Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, or Oklahoma. So basically, Lawrence, Kansas is the most liberal place in Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, or Oklahoma. So there's that. I just think that it's sad that someone would think that Iowa has "awesome college towns" (referring most likely to Iowa City), but not even think of mentioning Lawrence or Manhattan, Kansas. Maybe this person is not even aware of Lawrence and Manhattan. And that is sad.
As for the rest of Kansas, Wichita has a clean, neat downtown with nightlife, entertainment, parks, museums, businesses. I really think comparing these cities like Des Moines, Omaha, Wichita, Tulsa is very subjective. You can use all kinds of criteria to judge them, and that criteria is going to be based on what you personally like and value. So you can't say one city is better than another. It's all subjective. I can point out some things that people might not know. Wichita has a large public university close to the central part of town, Wichita State University, which is something that Tulsa, Oklahoma City, and Des Moines don't have (the main universities in those cities are all smaller private schools). Wichita also has two very good level one trauma center hosptials near downtown, Wesley Medical Center and Via Christi St. Francis.
There are nice parks and riverwalk areas along the Arkansas River in downtown Wichita. And yes there are urban neighborhoods in Wichita, like College Hill and Riverside. It was mentioned that Des Moines and Omaha have urban neighborhoods, as if these don't exist in Wichita. Riverside is a very nice urban neighborhood in Wichita, in a park, near the river, with all kinds of recreation around. Another thing people may not know is that Wichita just finished a multi-million dollar project to elevate all the railroad crossings in their downtown area, so all railroad traffic is elevated. There is a renovated warehouse district in downtown Wichita called Old Town that is the main nightlife district.
Wichita also has a downtown arena called Intrust Bank Arena, which seats about 17,000. There is a nice 1,000 seat historic theater called the Orpheum. A lot of other historic architecture in downtown Wichita like the Broadview Hotel, Scottish Rite Temple, etc. One main drawback, if you want to call it that, about downtown Wichita is that the buildings, for some reason, are not very tall, which gives the impression that the city is smaller than it is. The tallest building is about 300 feet tall. Downtown Wichita is very well laid out, clean, and easy to navigate. It has a human feel. Some downtowns feel closed-in with narrow streets and tall buildings casting shadows. Downtown Wichita has more of an open feel with wider streets and wide, short buildings.
The rural areas in Kansas are beautiful. Western Kansas is breathtaking with the wide-open expanses. There is nothing like gazing out over a field of wheat in western Kansas, being able to see for miles fields of wheat waving in the wind with maybe a car passing on a distant highway or a tall white grain elevator.
Another thing about Kansas is, 40% of the Kansas City metro area is in Kansas. It's the suburban part. But some of the better suburbs like Overland Park, which has been rated one of the best cities in America in which to live. People don't know with the bad rap that Kansas gets about education, that Johnson County, Kansas is one of the most educated counties in America, with about 50% of the residents there holding a bachelor's degree. Johnson County is the largest county in Kansas.
It's hard to explain Kansas to people that don't know anything about it. And frankly based on what I've read on this forum over the years I think most people are inclined to be biased against Kansas to begin with. So not only do I have to explain Kansas to people that don't know anything about it, but I have to correct misconceptions and work against biases that people already have. I really can't do that by myself on this forum. I wish people would educate themselves more by reading and studying about Kansas if they don't know about it.
I would rank these five states in this order. I'm putting Iowa first because, actually I like Iowa better than Kansas, even though I like Kansas as well. I like them both very much.
That was the most eloquent written defense of Kansas that I have seen in a long while here on CD. I respect your passion. Nonetheless, I disagree with you. Most of rural Kansas is bland, and often downright ugly. Trips out to Western Kansas (Liberal, Garden City, Dodge City) was no vacation. The stench in the air so thick you can taste it. Utter prairie wasteland devoid of beauty. Now the Flint Hills are lovely, and then some of the back road hills around Leavenworth too. But not much at all.
It's funny how people from KS rank MO so low. Most people that live in KS would not be there if it were not for MO being next door. There is close to a million people in the KC suburbs and Lawrence (all basically part of the kcmo metro area). That is almost half the population of the state and by far the most affluent and fastest growing part. That suburbs of KC alone are much more populated and built up than the largest actual metro area based in KS (Wichita).
But would any of that even be there if it were not for MO and the KC area across the state line? Where would so many of the companies now in Johnson County have come from? Companies don’t come to places like Overland Park from Denver or Dallas, I can tell you that.
And would suburban Kansas be anywhere near as desirable a place as it is without all the cultural attractions across the state line in Missouri? Without the pro sports, museums, amusement parks, arenas, downtown jobs (that people still commute to) entertainment districts, major airport etc of kcmo, JoCo is nothing more than one very large subdivision in the middle of nowhere. Missouri also offers the Ozarks, Branson, St Louis and more as close by tourism options for those in KS and trust me, by the amount of KS license places you see heading back to KC on Sundays, they do visit MO often.
Contrary to popular belief, I actually like Kansas. While I don’t think it offers anywhere near as much as Missouri does, it’s actually a nice state with some really nice topography, the college towns are great and the KS side of KC is nice. But one of the best things about KS is that people there can take advantage of being near Missouri and that’s why nearly all the growth in KS occurs as close to the MO state line as possible. (with the exception of government military bases and meat packing towns that attract immigrants).
I don’t like KS because I honestly believe that the KS side of KC inflicts more harm on KC than good. The KS side of KC simply has zero interest in cooperating with the MO side in any way and treats kcmo more like a hated enemy than another part of the metro more often than not. For that reason, I can’t stand KS and I can’t stand the lack of civic pride so many people in JoCo have toward kcmo (yet they are fine with using or taking kcmo’s “stuff”.)
If that were not the case, then KS would be one of my favorite states. It’s really not a bad place at all and NOTHING like what most people imagine (especially the KC area of KS).
So ignoring my issues with how KS interacts with the entire KC area as the MO side of the KC area is essentially a big part of KS culturally, here is my ranking:
Missouri
Kansas
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Iowa
Take away the access to the KC area (MO side) from Kansas
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Iowa
Kansas
I would rank KS higher because I think it’s a better overall state than OK, IA, NE (topography, weather etc), but it’s just not enough to overcome the loss of culture, entertainment etc. Even Des Moines, Tulsa, Omaha etc are much better than KS without KCMO. Wichita just doesn’t get it done for me.
I love Nebraska, it has the best education, safety, and is home to the college world series. Most importantly the Hanry Doorly Zoo is the best zoo in the entire world (fact)
If Nebraska has the best education system they would have the highest percentage of the population with four year degrees and higher as well as the highest percentage of the population with high school diplomas. Other states rank higher overall.
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