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LA CSA: 91.4% Asia, 3.4% Africa, 1.8% Europe, 1.7% Oceania, 1.0% Latin America (includes most of the Anglo-Caribbean, I know, weird), 0.7% Northern America
NY CSA: 84.0% Asia, 13.4% Latin America, 1.5% Africa, 0.7% Europe, 0.3% Northern America, 0.1% Oceania
Bay Area CSA: 93.4% Asia, 2.9% Oceania, 1.6% Africa, 1.1% Europe, 0.6% Northern America, 0.4% Latin America
That's interesting. NY's CSA is more diverse IMO b/c of the smaller majority number and the much larger secondary group, but I'm actually surprised to see the both the Bay and LA have a better representation of Indians from every single location EXCEPT for Latin America. If LA or the Bay had a more similar number to NY's Asia, both of them would likely rank as the most diverse in this regard. That was unexpected.
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Originally Posted by Lifeshadower
Notably though, South Asians make up such a low proportion of the population in the place that people visit the most: San Francisco. There is a notable Indian presence in Berkeley (especially along University Avenue) and the rest of the East Bay, but it's almost eerie to see how low the population of Indians in SF are.
This is why those who don't know are stuck with the misconception that Indians aren't well-represented out here. Silicon Valley is where they are at, not SF. And even University doesn't have much compared to the South Bay. The one thing that SF/Berkeley has over the South Bay for South Asian representation is Nepalese food. Its one of my favorite types of food, but I can only seem to find it in SF, Berkeley and Albany.
You're like one of those dudes who has an incident with one person of a different race, and from that day on views that entire race as being the same as the one guy he clashed with. You didn't see any Indians in Union Square, we get it. The fact that you're so unaware of how many South Asians there really are out here and how much a part of the Bay they are really just makes it clear that you don't know what's up. And that's just funny considering how often you of all people make these crazy accusations of how no one in the West knows what's going on on your side. Lol.
And the irony of it is that if you go out in Union Square any time between 10am-9pm basically any day of the week, you will see plenty of Indians walking around! So many Indian and Pakistani people from the outlying areas come here to shop like everyone else, to say nothing of the tourists... seriously, on the five-block walk from the bus stop to my workplace in Union Square, and between there and whatever place I get lunch at, I pass by multiple Indian families out shopping and eating like everyone else.
With the changing world economy, Union Square is packed at any given time with wealthy Indian and mainland Chinese people decked head-to-to in Armani Exchange and slinging Louis Vuitton handbags going on shopping vacations; I'd estimate that they probably make up 30% of the people walking around here at any given time during the summer!
Very good breakdown, and I like that you brought up the South Asian populations that come from the various island areas. I went to high school and worked with quite a few Indians from Fiji, and they actually do add a completely different element to the overall South Asian population out here. So I could see how much that must be the case for those in NYC from Guyana, etc. I very much agree with this assessment.
Yup, thank the British and their insatiable need to bring Indians everywhere they went (Fiji, Malaysia, Burma, South Africa, Mauritius, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, etc.) to have a reliable "plantation" population as "indentured servants". That's the topic for another thread though. The Dutch and French (to a much smaller extent) did the same thing as well after slavery was abolished.
Ironically, Britain still has way more South Asians than the United States, despite the former being much smaller and less populated.
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Exactly. He's just stuck on the idea that South Asians play second fiddle to other Asians out here and are basically forgotten in the grand scheme of things, based on his own assumptions and minimal experience out here where he wasn't even exposed to where the community truly thrives. He's opting to be ignorant on the subject, and then sticking to that script by filtering out all the knowledge that people keep sending his way. Don't worry about the fact that you presented all sides of the story and gave detailed statistics as to the reality. His presumptions are what matters most.
Well, the IRONY is that most tourists wouldn't be exposed to where Indians live the most either in the NY area: Queens, Western Nassau County, and Central NJ.
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Originally Posted by jman650
That's interesting. NY's CSA is more diverse IMO b/c of the smaller majority number and the much larger secondary group, but I'm actually surprised to see the both the Bay and LA have a better representation of Indians from every single location EXCEPT for Latin America. If LA or the Bay had a more similar number to NY's Asia, both of them would likely rank as the most diverse in this regard. That was unexpected.
Non-resident Indian and Person of Indian Origin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well, despite the fact that there are South Asians all over the place, the largest populations of them are places that would be considered "Asia" on the US census. I've met a fair amount of Indians who hailed from Singapore, Malaysia, and Burma (not saying a HUGE amount) that would be counted way more with Asia than with anything else and who've been living in the countries they've lived in for hundreds of years. I wish they separated it out by country of birth so we can fully see where they all came far.
For sure though, NYC Area would still win out at the end of the day.
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This is why those who don't know are stuck with the misconception that Indians aren't well-represented out here. Silicon Valley is where they are at, not SF. And even University doesn't have much compared to the South Bay. The one thing that SF/Berkeley has over the South Bay for South Asian representation is Nepalese food. Its one of my favorite types of food, but I can only seem to find it in SF, Berkeley and Albany.
Well, I'm extremely familiar with what I could find near campus since for my first year there, I had no car To a much larger extent than the NY area though, you will find South Asians in more places around than merely the South/Southeast Bay. As time moves on, this movement will accelerate as cheaper housing prices push EVERYONE (not just Indians, but almost everyone) more inland.
That's what I do miss about the Bay Area though: Good Indian food. It's not like it doesn't exist in LA, but its much harder to come by. And nearly every South Asian person I know down here always tells me that if you can't get any food at home, its better to make the trip up to NorCal for some good Indian food.
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Originally Posted by 415_s2k
And the irony of it is that if you go out in Union Square any time between 10am-9pm basically any day of the week, you will see plenty of Indians walking around! So many Indian and Pakistani people from the outlying areas come here to shop like everyone else, to say nothing of the tourists... seriously, on the five-block walk from the bus stop to my workplace in Union Square, and between there and whatever place I get lunch at, I pass by multiple Indian families out shopping and eating like everyone else.
With the changing world economy, Union Square is packed at any given time with wealthy Indian and mainland Chinese people decked head-to-to in Armani Exchange and slinging Louis Vuitton handbags going on shopping vacations; I'd estimate that they probably make up 30% of the people walking around here at any given time during the summer!
Yeah, I didn't understand that supposition either. There's actually really good Indian food options in the TL (I really enjoyed eating at Shalimar). In addition, if you go to the Golden Gate Bridge on any day of the week, there are always plenty of South Asian tourists around.
It's not like Indians from elsewhere in the Bay Area could BART into the city, especially considering that the end of one of the lines is in FREMONT. At Fremont BART, there are literally BART and AC transit bus stop signs in a lot of different South Asian languages one you can think of, in addition to Filipino, Vietnamese, and Chinese. And unlike Cupertino, many of the South Asians in Fremont aren't nearly as oriented to Silicon Valley as much as the "small business" and middle class crowd.
Well, the IRONY is that most tourists wouldn't be exposed to where Indians live the most either in the NY area: Queens, Western Nassau County, and Central NJ.
Very good point!
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Originally Posted by Lifeshadower
Well, I'm extremely familiar with what I could find near campus since for my first year there, I had no car To a much larger extent than the NY area though, you will find South Asians in more places around than merely the South/Southeast Bay. As time moves on, this movement will accelerate as cheaper housing prices push EVERYONE (not just Indians, but almost everyone) more inland.
That's what its sounding like. I've really never even seen any evidence of a supposed "overwhelming" feeling of the presence of Indians in NYC myself - hell, if I were Starks I could just as easily say "I felt like I was the only Indian guy on the entire East Coast" EACH time I've been in NYC lol. The only South Asian "offerings" I've experienced in NYC were the one and only Sri Lankan restaurant I could find in NYC at "Curry Row," and some random Indian spot that was so-so in the UWS that was delivered to us by a non-Indian dude. Other than that, it seemed some of the many, many halal carts were Pakistani-owned, and we hit this one hipster dosa spot in Soho IIRC, that was run by white folks lol.
But we had to actually SEEK these things out in order to find them; its not like South Asians were just soooo abundant and well-represented all over NYC the way Chinese are in SF or Filipinos are in Daly City or whatever. I agree with you, it is very easy to stumble upon Indians/South Asians and their food, etc. all over the Bay Area without ever even going to the South/Southeast Bay. And from my experience it is easier to randomly do this here than in NYC. But the selection of Indian/South Asian stuff to be found in the South/Southeast Bay is by far the best in this area IMO.
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Originally Posted by Lifeshadower
That's what I do miss about the Bay Area though: Good Indian food. It's not like it doesn't exist in LA, but its much harder to come by. And nearly every South Asian person I know down here always tells me that if you can't get any food at home, its better to make the trip up to NorCal for some good Indian food.
This is actually the first time I've heard that, but I guess it could be true. I've never had Indian in SoCal, and LA kicks a$$ in so many areas food-wise I guess it can't have the best of EVERYTHING lol. I really wish we had something comparable up here to Carousel or one of the other great Armenian spots down there though!
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Originally Posted by Lifeshadower
Yeah, I didn't understand that supposition either. There's actually really good Indian food options in the TL (I really enjoyed eating at Shalimar). In addition, if you go to the Golden Gate Bridge on any day of the week, there are always plenty of South Asian tourists around.
I'm sure he never even ventured that far in. If you just go off what he says it doesn't sound like he ever left the square itself, other than to maybe walk down Powell to the BART station and head to Berkeley only to verify his pre-conceived idea that there supposedly wasn't much that was Indian there on University.
But yeah, I agree. There are some really great options right there in the TL (Lahore Karahi is another one), and its actually impressive that he managed to miss everything. I don't know how even in downtown SF (let alone Berkeley) that someone who is looking for Indians/Indian food or whatever else could manage to not see anything at all. Isn't the largest frat in Berkeley supposed to be an Indian one? I remember hearing that back in the mid-90's.
This is actually the first time I've heard that, but I guess it could be true. I've never had Indian in SoCal, and LA kicks a$$ in so many areas food-wise I guess it can't have the best of EVERYTHING lol. I really wish we had something comparable up here to Carousel or one of the other great Armenian spots down there though!
There are some really, really good Indian spots in LA, but they're all over the map and in general, I found the quality to be not-as-high as in the Bay Area.
Makkah Halal Tandoori on Vermont, on the Eastern periphery of Koreatown, is really good. I'd eat there pretty often when I was living in the area; there's also an excellent Bengali grocer/restaurant called Aladin Sweets & Market (the logo is a chubby, goofy-looking Aladin rubbing a lamp) that had a super-cheap all-day buffet if you wanted street-style fare. Nawab of India on Wilshire in Santa Monica is a great upscale spot. Electric Lotus on Vermont & Franklin is a 1960's London Orientalized-style Indian spot with booths where you sit on raw silk pillows on the floor; an order of pakoras is a whole plate, chock-full of dozens of them.
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I'm sure he never even ventured that far in. If you just go off what he says it doesn't sound like he ever left the square itself, other than to maybe walk down Powell to the BART station and head to Berkeley only to verify his pre-conceived idea that there supposedly wasn't much that was Indian there on University.
But yeah, I agree. There are some really great options right there in the TL (Lahore Karahi is another one), and its actually impressive that he managed to miss everything. I don't know how even in downtown SF (let alone Berkeley) that someone who is looking for Indians/Indian food or whatever else could manage to not see anything at all. Isn't the largest frat in Berkeley supposed to be an Indian one? I remember hearing that back in the mid-90's.
Another good one is Punjab, at Mason and Ellis. Great naan, great curries, and a friendly proprietor.
There are some really, really good Indian spots in LA, but they're all over the map and in general, I found the quality to be not-as-high as in the Bay Area.
Makkah Halal Tandoori on Vermont, on the Eastern periphery of Koreatown, is really good. I'd eat there pretty often when I was living in the area; there's also an excellent Bengali grocer/restaurant called Aladin Sweets & Market (the logo is a chubby, goofy-looking Aladin rubbing a lamp) that had a super-cheap all-day buffet if you wanted street-style fare. Nawab of India on Wilshire in Santa Monica is a great upscale spot. Electric Lotus on Vermont & Franklin is a 1960's London Orientalized-style Indian spot with booths where you sit on raw silk pillows on the floor; an order of pakoras is a whole plate, chock-full of dozens of them.
Another good one is Punjab, at Mason and Ellis. Great naan, great curries, and a friendly proprietor.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'm jotting them down!
But we had to actually SEEK these things out in order to find them; its not like South Asians were just soooo abundant and well-represented all over NYC the way Chinese are in SF or Filipinos are in Daly City or whatever. I agree with you, it is very easy to stumble upon Indians/South Asians and their food, etc. all over the Bay Area without ever even going to the South/Southeast Bay. And from my experience it is easier to randomly do this here than in NYC. But the selection of Indian/South Asian stuff to be found in the South/Southeast Bay is by far the best in this area IMO.
Honestly, despite what most people say on CD, people don't actively seek out ethnic neighborhoods whenever they visit a place UNLESS the ethnic neighborhood is so famous and/or so near to other famous things to make a trip there convenient. How many people who visit SF REALLY go out to Fremont or Daly City? How many people who visit LA visit Glendale (best Armenian/Meditteranean food in LA, IMO) or Westminster? How many people who visit NYC really make their way out to Flushing or Jackson Heights? See what I mean..if its far off the beaten path, most people wouldn't even bother.
I will say: people who go to SF DO visit the Mission and Chinatown, people who go to NY DO make it a point to see Little Italy and Chinatown (right next to each other), and people who go to LA, if in downtown, do try to hit up Olivera Street (yeah, with overpriced, chipotle style food), Chinatown, or Little Tokyo (if they have time). But again, these aren't really off the beaten path
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This is actually the first time I've heard that, but I guess it could be true. I've never had Indian in SoCal, and LA kicks a$$ in so many areas food-wise I guess it can't have the best of EVERYTHING lol. I really wish we had something comparable up here to Carousel or one of the other great Armenian spots down there though!
Trust me, its true. Again, its not like it doesn't exist, its just hard to find good places in a concentration. There are places spread out all over the place, but for the most part, Indian food for me is a luxury that isn't readily available as it once was when I was in the Bay Area.
LA is great for most other things (and so is the Bay, BTW), but this is one area that is sorta lacking. I could go for a mango lassi, naan, and chicken biryani right now....oh well!
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But yeah, I agree. There are some really great options right there in the TL (Lahore Karahi is another one), and its actually impressive that he managed to miss everything. I don't know how even in downtown SF (let alone Berkeley) that someone who is looking for Indians/Indian food or whatever else could manage to not see anything at all. Isn't the largest frat in Berkeley supposed to be an Indian one? I remember hearing that back in the mid-90's.
I'm not too sure who the largest frat is now, but I did have a friend in the South Asian frat. I wasn't really into the Greeks, other than to get free booze, parties (yeah, they weren't great..), and sororitutes. Berkeley's Indian options HAVE improved lately, but the two places nearest to campus (House of Curries and Naan and Curry) aren't anything special that you couldn't get off university, DTSF, and would probably be ranked a WHOLE lot lower if it were in Fremont.
I've had Desi friends recommend Shalimar to me, so I finally tried it the last time I was in SF. I gotta say, it delivered thoroughly. In fact, I was with a friend who never had Indian food before, and now LOVES it because of that place
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Originally Posted by 415_s2k
There are some really, really good Indian spots in LA, but they're all over the map and in general, I found the quality to be not-as-high as in the Bay Area.
Makkah Halal Tandoori on Vermont, on the Eastern periphery of Koreatown, is really good. I'd eat there pretty often when I was living in the area; there's also an excellent Bengali grocer/restaurant called Aladin Sweets & Market (the logo is a chubby, goofy-looking Aladin rubbing a lamp) that had a super-cheap all-day buffet if you wanted street-style fare. Nawab of India on Wilshire in Santa Monica is a great upscale spot. Electric Lotus on Vermont & Franklin is a 1960's London Orientalized-style Indian spot with booths where you sit on raw silk pillows on the floor; an order of pakoras is a whole plate, chock-full of dozens of them.
Another good one is Punjab, at Mason and Ellis. Great naan, great curries, and a friendly proprietor.
I have to try those places, but I have been to Electric Lotus. It was ok, but the drinks were a LITTLE too pricey (well, considering the hipster nature of the area, its not totally surprising why). My date was impressed though with my knowledge of different Indian foods though.
It would have made more sense if a Desi area were named in Canoga Park (there's a LOT of Indian stuff in the northern part of Canoga Park along Sherman Way and Topanga Canyon), but there has been a noticeable increase of Bengalis in that area.
I'll be completely honest when I say this: I've eaten at a few places in Monterey Park and Alhambra. I didn't think they were anything special, to be honest. Maybe someone in this thread can enlighten me with some restaurant recommendations? I've had some really good Chinese food in the Valley (especially around here in Northridge, convenient for me ) but not in the SGV. Although, there was this one dim sum place out in Monterey Park that is almost worth driving to every morning
Asian offering? you know...who has more asian restaurants, asian cultural clubs, affect on the local population?
Why is the bay winning, when LA and NYC has more Asian people? that makes no sense!
Because there is a larger percentage of Asians in the SF area than there are in either city.
NYC is 11% Asian, SF is 33%, and there are cities in the Bay Area that have a majority Asian populace.
It makes perfect sense if you've set foot in any of the above cities.
Think of it like this... if you were driving out in the middle of the desert, and you came upon a town of 2000 people that was 50% Asian, meaning that there were 1000 Asians and 1000 people of other races, it wouldn't be overwhelmingly surprising if three of the six churches were a couple Buddhist temples and a Korean/Chinese/Vietnamese Christian church with services in that language, nor would it be surprising if you walked down the main drag and most of the restaurants you passed were Chinese take-out, pho, and sushi. Even though there are only 1000 Asians in the town, that's still half the population, and you'd come away with the impression that the place is much more influenced by Asians than, say, Oklahoma City, even though there are about 20,000 Asians in OKC, because they make up 3.9% of the population.
Because there is a larger percentage of Asians in the SF area than there are in either city.
NYC is 11% Asian, SF is 33%, and there are cities in the Bay Area that have a majority Asian populace.
It makes perfect sense if you've set foot in any of the above cities.
Think of it like this... if you were driving out in the middle of the desert, and you came upon a town of 2000 people that was 50% Asian, meaning that there were 1000 Asians and 1000 people of other races, it wouldn't be overwhelmingly surprising if three of the six churches were a couple Buddhist temples and a Korean/Chinese/Vietnamese Christian church with services in that language, nor would it be surprising if you walked down the main drag and most of the restaurants you passed were Chinese take-out, pho, and sushi. Even though there are only 1000 Asians in the town, that's still half the population, and you'd come away with the impression that the place is much more influenced by Asians than, say, Oklahoma City, even though there are about 20,000 Asians in OKC, because they make up 3.9% of the population.
You follow me?
there are over 400,000 chinese people in NYC ALONE, compared to only 153,000 in the city of san francisco. last time i heard, 400,000 is a larger number than 153,000. there are also more koreans, indians, and other groups in the ny area than there are in the bay area. thats a fact. flushing, queens by itself has more of a chinese influence than all of the city of sf. that's an empirical fact! in addition, the density of nyc matches more with places like tokyo and hong kong than sf,
there is a certain point where percentages dont matter anymore. the average nyc and la resident has more access to asian stuff than the average bay area resident, where the latter is more american than the immigrant dominated NYC and LA.
NYC and LA are just more international places, which is why there are the 2 largest cities. SF is too american for me. thats why more asians go to NYC and LA than SF.
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To a much larger extent than the NY area though, you will find South Asians in more places around than merely the South/Southeast Bay. As time moves on, this movement will accelerate as cheaper housing prices push EVERYONE (not just Indians, but almost everyone) more inland.
) but not in the SGV. Although, there was this one dim sum place out in Monterey Park that is almost worth driving to every morning 
