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Um what is untrue? Are suggesting that Bucks, Monmoth, and Bergen do not include this many people? Wasnt this your little criteria Montclair, you dont like that 95 actually runs this way or something?
At the end of the day, the only place where there is any 'interplay' is Mercer County, and even there, far more residents of MC work in NY than they do in Philadephia, hence its inclusion in the NY CSA.
Otherwise, you have a large urban conurbation that the govt has indicated it may combine into a single UA, but that is totally a different topic altogether from 'interplay' or combining into a single CSA, much less a single MSA and any suggestion is nothing more than flights of fancy.
San Francisco and a foregone conclusion and needs no sort of evidence as 241,000 people cross the SF/SJ MSA borders everyday specifically to WORK. 600,000 automobiles cross that border on 4 major freeways and so on.
Philadelphia and New York are roughly the exact same as San Francisco and Sacramento.
And the fact that you say it takes the same time to drive from Philly to NY(which is wrong btw) as it does to drive from SJ to SF only proves my point-there is worlds more traffic btwn SF and SJ than btwn Philadelphia and NYC---not even on the same planet. Thanks for proving that.
There are many other counties with connectivity, laregst outside of Mercer are Bucks, Burlington, Camden, Ocean, Huntedon, Monmoth, Somerset, Middlesex, Union - others like Montco, Philly, Gloucester, Hudson, Essex, Bergen, New York all have some as well.
On traffic there are more highways that connect these regions (I suspect you suffer from NJ Turnpike transit perspective, this misses the most populated parts from exit 9 to 4 on the NJ Turnpike, try a more western path sometime, it will look a lot different). There are more highway lanes that connect these two MSAs than do SF/SJ (North Jersey has the most highway miles per mile of anywhere in the country and surprisingly good traffic flow. Also this is the heaviest and most widely used rail corrider in the country.
So riddle me this Montclair, did we not discuss and show evidence that the CSA connection is made (the same data you keep discussing on the Mercer activity, or do you only refernce what works for your position?)
Also on your 600K crossing SF/SJ, does that include both directions? If so why would you count that way and disregard this in the Philly/NYC discussion? oh guess it fits your story better
Lastly you still have not addressed the interplay. Do you only count movement in one direction in the Bay area, if so what is the insignificant part, flow to SJ or flow to SF, just curious as I would like to understand how the folks that flow the insignificant way understand this?
Location: NY-NJ-Philly looks down at SF and laughs at the hippies
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^ This is kind of off topic, but I use to live in Monmouth County NJ when I was a teenager. I use to go into the city for concerts when in high school at MSG and it was not too close, pretty long ride on NJT. I wouldn't want to do it both ways five times a week for work.
^ This is kind of off topic, but I use to live in Monmouth County NJ when I was a teenager. I use to go into the city for concerts when in high school at MSG and it was not too close, pretty long ride on NJT. I wouldn't want to do it both ways five times a week for work.
I have never taken the NJT lines that go down that way, hear they are not as effecient as the NE corrider lines. I used to take NJT into NYC from Trenton, was a little over an hour to MSG (Penn Station) not sure what the time is to Penn from Monmouth on NJT. I spent half my youth in Bucks County and made the trip up to the city fairly often (not as much as to Philly but enough)
Um what is untrue? Are suggesting that Bucks, Monmoth, and Bergen do not include this many people? Wasnt this your little criteria Montclair, you dont like that 95 actually runs this way or something?
What I like? What I like or think is irrelevant. Let's talk facts. No links necessary. Just a simple map.
Here are the counties between Philadelphia City and New York City along the 95 freeway: 2010 Census:
Hudson, NJ 634,266
Essex, NJ 783,969
Union, NJ 536,499
Middlesex, NJ 809,858
Mercer, NJ 366,513
Burlington, NJ 448,734
Camden, NJ 513,657 Total: 4,093,496
4 Million is not 7.5 Million
Still wanna continue arguing against facts and reality?
Quote:
There are more highway lanes that connect these two MSAs than do SF/SJ
Please provide evidence for this claim. I dont see that after looking at google earth maps.
San Francisco-San Jose MSAs
Hy 101 San Mateo-Santa Clara 8 lanes
I-280 San Mateo-Santa Clara 9 lanes
I-680 Alameda-Santa Clara 8 lanes
I-880 Alameda-Santa Clara 10 lanes Total: 35 lanes on major freeways
vs.
Mercer-Philadelphia MSAs
Hy 1 Mercer-Bucks 4lanes
I-95 Mercer-Burlington 6 lanes
I-95 Mercer-Bucks 4
I-295 Mercer-Burlington 6 lanes New York-Philadelphia MSAs
Hy 9 Ocean-Burlington 4 lanes Total: 24 lanes on major freeways
The only major link between New York and Philadelphia themselves is the 95 freeway but at the CSA borders is just 6 lanes total, 3 on each side.
Every other freeway is Mercer and Philadelphia, not Philadelphia and New York.
What I like? What I like or think is irrelevant. Let's talk facts. No links necessary. Just a simple map.
Here are the counties between Philadelphia City and New York City along the 95 freeway: 2010 Census:
Hudson, NJ 634,266
Essex, NJ 783,969
Union, NJ 536,499
Middlesex, NJ 809,858
Mercer, NJ 366,513
Burlington, NJ 448,734
Camden, NJ 513,657 Total: 4,093,496
4 Million is not 7.5 Million
Still wanna continue arguing against facts and reality?
Please provide evidence for this claim. I dont see that after looking at google earth maps.
San Francisco-San Jose MSAs
Hy 101 San Mateo-Santa Clara 8 lanes
I-280 San Mateo-Santa Clara 9 lanes
I-680 Alameda-Santa Clara 8 lanes
I-880 Alameda-Santa Clara 10 lanes Total: 35 lanes on major freeways
vs.
Mercer-Philadelphia MSAs
Hy 1 Mercer-Bucks 4lanes
I-95 Mercer-Burlington 6 lanes
I-95 Mercer-Bucks 4
I-295 Mercer-Burlington 6 lanes New York-Philadelphia MSAs
Hy 9 Ocean-Burlington 4 lanes Total: 24 lanes on major freeways
The only major link between New York and Philadelphia themselves is the 95 freeway but at the CSA borders is just 6 lanes total, 3 on each side.
Every other freeway is Mercer and Philadelphia, not New York.
You are once again contradicting yourself in this very qouted post. Where is Bucks (650K). You reference a Highway connection on 95 yet exclude in your county count. Also 95 Enters NYC via Bergen (again not included with 905K), and also Monmouth (the junction of 95 back to the NJ turnpike 630K) - add 2.2 million to your above total on your criteria. Since when is 95 not in Bucks county? http://maps.google.com/maps?q=langho...,99.86,,0,-3.8
on MSA connections (two things, didnt we establish yesterday that mercer now has exceeded the MSA criteria to NYC) and some other connections like Route 202 Bucks to Hunderdon 4 lanes, 95 Mercer to Bucks is 6 (not 4), GS Parkway Burlington to Ocean is another 6, 195 Mercer to Burlington 6, 78 (understand why you would miss this one) Bucks to Warren 6. Also the Mercer to Burlington 95 connection is already built out for 12 (from 6), the divided highway is almost complete from where it terminates currenly at 8a down to 5 (The new PA Turnike 276 connector) - that is an additional 30 or total of 54
but mostly you did some good work here
And no the only major link between between Philly and NYC is not only I95, Also there is another mode actually its called the Acela (It links the two busiest train stations in America) but not just the Acela. The NE Express, NE Regional, Septa, and NJT. Plus two additional lines the West Trenton and NJT Riverline also conncet via rail and 20 minute interval Bolt and Megabus routes and the numerous dedicated commuter bus routes from bucks, burlington, and Camden counties on the PT side
Also 130 is technically limited access seperated highway at the juncture of Mercer and Burlington but has traffic signals pretty close in either direction so didnt include the 6 lanes there
Last edited by kidphilly; 09-15-2011 at 08:50 PM..
95 doesnt cross Burlington County from Mercer--I was wrong.
Quote:
the divided highway is almost complete from where it terminates currenly at 8a down to 5 (The new PA Turnike 276 connector)
This is all completely within the Philadelphia area and not at the border of the NY and Philadelphia CSAs or MSAs.
Quote:
that is an additional 30 or total of 54
By now, this claim is dubious at best.
It is not true that there are more freeway lanes between the NY MSA-Philadelphia MSA than there are between the SF MSA and SJ MSA and it is almost assured that the total traffic volume is probably nowhere near 615,000 cars a day which is the traffic count btwn SF and SJ on 101, 280, 680 and 880.
95 doesnt cross Burlington County from Mercer--I was wrong.
This is all completely within the Philadelphia area and not at the border of the NY and Philadelphia CSAs or MSAs.
By now, this claim is dubious at best.
It is not true that there are more freeway lanes between the NY MSA-Philadelphia MSA than there are between the SF MSA and SJ MSA and it is almost assured that the total traffic volume is probably nowhere near 615,000 cars a day which is the traffic count btwn SF and SJ on 101, 280, 680 and 880.
suggest you check the dates on these google images, their images are not always up to current!
And yes today the Turnpike is 6 (the other 6 are already built but not open yet - trust me I drive this specific at least twice a week) That image is extremly old - go to the NJ Turnpike website - they may even have live images for you NJ Turnpike Interchange 6 to 9 Widening Program : Home
195 does cross the Burlington border (basically touches but for our purposes makes the connection)
on I78 I suggest you look at the flow volume here (all those cars that travers the rural expanse) - this flows directly into the 287 corrider a very large job center.
Also on the other counties in the earlier post. Again do these not have 95 in them? You never address these at all
95 to NJ at Mercer is 6 (Again another road i travel quite frequently again believe this image is dated)
Question 1 -Do you agree that Mercer now meets the MSA criteria (As you usually you do not address all points/questions in posts so will number these for you)
Question 2 - Does 95 run through Bucks county, if so why is in not included in your earlier total 9Also Bergen and Monmouth for 95)
Question 3 - Do the 600K only move one direction in the Bay, if not why is only relevant in the bay for multi-direction traffic? I am actually not sure where to get volume data for all the roads that pass over these line (oddly my whole premis is the lines are pretty stupid in the first place)
Question 4 - Can I include rail and bus tranist riders in the cross border total? Or do these folks not count?
Am just curious as you like your little world of rules, though it does seem like you do try to top from the bottom, that is no no though, you should know better, discipline can be a *****...
Last edited by kidphilly; 09-15-2011 at 10:28 PM..
Also Just between Bucks and Mercer/Hunderdon/Warren (Excludes 80) is 327K in daily traffic. This excludes the Jersey Turnpike, GS Parkway, I295, and I195 which are actually higher volumes than the other main roads listed in this link
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