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I really do hate what happened to New Orleans after Katrina. However, I have a hard time with people putting so much blind faith (and therefore blame) on the Army COE and the POTUS as if he was personally responsible for the levees themselves failing in the aftermath however. Nobody's perfect and that goes for government agencies. The Army COE was battling 3 factors that man will never fully be able to conquer and one of these is unique and ultimately devastating to New Orleans:
1) The forces of nature - We've literally seen countless examples of this. It's arrogant to think we can completely and totally without fail guard against what nature can fully dish out.
2) The laws of gravity - Most if not all of New Orleans is under sea level which is the unique factor to New Orleans that makes the city so much more vulnerable. Eventually if any small part of the infrastructure protecting the city is even off the slightest amount that would cause levee failure and the city is gauranteed to flood. Absolutely zero margin of error which brings us to........
3) Human error - No matter how much some people expect all government to be perfect 100% of the time human nature and experience tells us that will never happen 100% of the time. Planes sometimes crash, bridges have even collapsed, and roads are often undermined and washed away by floods and mudslides. Every possible eventuality can't always be accounted for. It is possible to not know every single last effect high storm surge and levee wall pressure will have on levee systems. It IS possible for man made things to fail even when they go out of their way to protect against such failures.
I realize there are SOME people that simply have no options to leave. However, any and all possible avenues for evacuation should have been taken given what was coming with Katrina. MANY people that could have left didn't and paid the ultimate price.
The storm was practically over when the first levee was breeched. They held up before, they should have held up again. If you think it's easy to abandon your home and spend thousands of dollars evacuating then I cannot change your perception. Most people could NOT leave, just because you think people decided to lolly gag around doesn't mean it is true. Many of the people did not have cars, let alone money to feed, clean, and house themselves on the road in a place that is foriegn to them.
The CoE does shotty work point blank. They've moved the HQ for their LA based operations outside of the state because the state govt and citizens constantly have to question their decisions and practices. It has already been discovered that they had been half-assing the work of the new levees even to the point of filling them with backfill and even trash versus the appropriate materials. Their response as usual "no comment" and since they can't be held legally responsible indoubt that they care. This is the same organization that assured both city and state govt. that the levees were up to spec and completely safe before Katrina even though local engineers and authorities had been refuting over and over again to the federal govt. Do a search through South Louisiana newspapers for stories about the CoE and see what's really going on.
Most of New Orleans is actually at or above sea level, yes you can google that.
It's just not that simple. Yes anything constructed by man can fail, that is a risk that we all take for granted daily whether we realize it or not. That's why we have engineers who are supposed to do their best to minimize that risk. There was no Earthly reason why that wall should have failed besides the fact that someone didn't do their job.
As far as the evacuating, moving that people in 2 days is just not.... and at that time it was inconceivable. Also up until 2006 state law prohibited forced evacuation as the majority of the rest of the state feels that it encroaches on their rights. Now we move people out by plane, bus, and train which the conservative majority of the rest of the is not too happy about.
Last edited by WestbankNOLA; 10-03-2011 at 05:36 PM..
The storm turned northward a couple days before landfall, so no you are wrong. It wasn't a Cat 4 or 5.
Hot air....
Really? Why don't you look at the news reports. Heck, just to be sure, I went to YouTube and watched videos of the newscasts. It was as strong as a Cat 5 within 24 hours of landfall. Anybody with a pea brain would have loaded up the crucial possessions and gotten the hell out of Dodge.
Really? Why don't you look at the news reports. Heck, just to be sure, I went to YouTube and watched videos of the newscasts. It was as strong as a Cat 5 within 24 hours of landfall. Anybody with a pea brain would have loaded up the crucial possessions and gotten the hell out of Dodge.
Just quit, dude. If there's anybody tired of debating Katrina it's New Orleanians. It shouldn't be an issue in this thread.
Really? Why don't you look at the news reports. Heck, just to be sure, I went to YouTube and watched videos of the newscasts. It was as strong as a Cat 5 within 24 hours of landfall. Anybody with a pea brain would have loaded up the crucial possessions and gotten the hell out of Dodge.
It was a 3 at landfall. That's what I said. It's obvious you've never been through a hurricane season.
It was a 3 at landfall. That's what I said. It's obvious you've never been through a hurricane season.
I really am tired of talking about Katrina.
Anyway New Orleans > Birmingham
Actually, I have, thanks. And anybody who sits on his butt hoping a Cat 4 or 5 slackens is a complete idiot. Just because its strength lessened at the last minute doesn't mean anything. It could have just as easily maintained strength. And then there wouldn't be any city to write about.
Actually, I have, thanks. And anybody who sits on his butt hoping a Cat 4 or 5 slackens is a complete idiot. Just because its strength lessened at the last minute doesn't mean anything. It could have just as easily maintained strength. And then there wouldn't be any city to write about.
Disrespectful. As much flack as I catch for being an "*******" here I really have to say that that's really disrespectful. Especially since there are cities that actually are no longer here to write about from this very storm. Cities where people are missing, never recovered, because they had no other choice but to hope for a storm to weaken. Oh wait I'm sorry, who cares about them? They're just idiots right. Obviously, Hell there wasn't much of N.O. left, but you're still writing about out. This city has pratically rebuilt itself from the ground up and is coming harder than ever. Obviously you feel some type of way.
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The fact that you all felt the need to turn this into a Katrina discussion shows whose on top here. So what if we mix a little pleasure into our business ethic? So what if we continue to live instead of inducing panic and paranoia as a storm forms? So what? So what if there is alcohol available everywhere? Locals still post lower than average DUI and drinking related emergencies. So what if we don't have hills. We do us, we've done it for 300 years and will continue to do so. Criticize all day, N.O. has never been the one to care what anyone else does and we definitely don't expect others to understand how or why we do what we do. You'd have to be from here or invest a lot of time here to get it. There's a reason people move here and never leave. Oh, and like annie said.... Birmingham <<< New Orleans
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